Hope Trial Zone disappointment

[Jere_h]

After many different brakes over the years I finally decided to spend extra on the Tech 4 Trial zone (for a front brake) to see if they're worth it.

Must say I'm not very impressed.. These seem to be plagued with issues, wrapped in a pretty CNC form (that isn't so pretty in terms of ergonomics and safety). The lever blade is so sharp and uncomfortable it's difficult to use these without gloves and even with gloves on it's painful. Crashing on that thing will 100% cause open cuts, it's a pretty dangerous design really. Now they're re-designed the blade for the new EVO range which obviously isn't backwards compatible to the old Tech4 lever, what a surprise.

For 235€ I was expecting to get a sharp and precise bite point considering all that sturdy CNC goodness, yet this brake is softer and spongier than anything I've tried before. To me it looks like there must be some air, which is more like a norm these days when purchasing a new disc brake. So let's spend some more to order another ridiculously priced bleed kit straight away. Good thing is these work with the regular brake fluid at least. Another reason could be the leverage ratio being so high, making it inevitably spongy. Whatever it is, the brake doesn't feel great at all.

Another main issue is that the pistons aren't fully retracting and hence pads are rubbing slightly, even when the adjuster is rolled completely out. There's barely any pad clearance. So here we already have one strange issue that I never encountered with any other brake, yet these are like double as expensive. I've tried to push the pistons inside a few times (they do retract well and stay there so I don't think there's fluid overload) but after one press they start rubbing again.

The good thing to say is that even when not properly bedded in (new Hope rotor too), the brake seems to have some incredibly strong bite and hold even at this point. This is very promising, compared to other brakes I've bedded in they typically had like zero hold at this point. So the lever is very light and seems to have a lot of power (which indicates an enormously strong leverage ratio, which typically leads to spongy feel).

How is your experience with the Hope Trial Zone? So far I have mixed feelings (due to the price). Formula Cura 2 has been the best feeling brake for trials and MTB so far, they just weren't there with their reliability and I wanted a brake that has a proper bleed nipple instead of the stupid screw that makes a mess every time (Formula, Magura).

 

Edited September 5 by Jere_h

[SergeL]

100% agree with lever design and safety issues. Many riders I know wrapped them in bartape or used special jitsie pads to eliminate sharp parts.

But I don't understand why people are so obsessed with firm lever feel. Usually, it hurts finger when brake is squeezed too much.

If a spongy lever fully actuates brake and not hitting a grip or middle finger – it's fine + less arm pump.

[Jere_h]

Too much firmness is bad I agree, TRP Slate is one of those brakes that hurt fingers. But a healthy level of feedback of the bite point is crucial in my opinion. Spongy lever on the other hand, doesn't let you know what happens there and when, it's just numb and then grabs all of sudden. Also same thing when letting go (modulating) the brake, with a spongy brake you have to guess where it starts to slip.

Another thing is, many of us like to run the levers adjusted very close to bars which makes maintaining a secure grip easier and causing less arm pump. With a spongy brake you can't really do that.

About my Hope brake.. I used hours to bleed this thing (which is awesome because of the ability to do it moto-style btw, actually no need for a bleed kit), there was some minor air coming out but it didn't improve much. Also shortened the hose and that made probably the biggest difference (obviously). Then I noticed that one of the pistons was slightly stuck or needed much more force to push back than the other one. So I used another hour to move them in and out to make them work better. Now it seems to actuate symmetrically enough so that's probably not the issue number one.

The end result is that nothing significantly changed, the brake is still quite soft and numb although yes it brakes well now when bedded in. The contact area of the pads and rotor is huge. Just not a fan of how it feels like, cumbersome is the correct term I think, with the massive blocky lever blade together with lack of firm bite point. Also the clearance between pads and rotor seems almost non existent in this brake by design, I don't think it's a fault. So it's always rubbing a bit when pushing the bike, making that honk honk noise. I thought that Magura MT5 brakes were insanely difficult to get right in terms of clearance adjustment, but this is on another level. Imagine when the rotor is getting slightly bent....

The higher than normal leverage ratio probably being the reason, to all of these issues. Fun thing is that the fancy bite point adjuster is pretty much unusable, because the pads are already too close when it's rolled completely open.

Switching to braided hoses might fix the lack of feel but I probably wouldn't bother to try. 

 

[Lucky124]

I am still riding with tech 3 and race levers but from my technical understanding I think the spongy lever feel is by design.

Hope increased the power by 30% when they updated to tech 4 by decreasing the lever piston diameter to 9.5mm and making the lever 5mm longer. From hydraulic/mechanic ratio view the saddles were not updated. The higher pressure in the hydraulic system and the longer lever are leading to more flex in the cables, lever and saddle. 

I haven't ridden the tech 4 yet, I am not sure if the update for the trial zone was really needed (mtb is a totally different story, the trial zone saddle is with the 25mm piston really powerfull compared to their mtb brakes). Adding 30% to a tech 3 trial zone they end with slightly more power than a trickstuff maxima from a numbers view. On this website is a good overview of the leverage ratios: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl/ 

Interestingly, on the hope website now only the new evo levers are listed with the trial zone. I am very curious how they feel, especially with the shorter way to reaching the bite point and the option to install a shorter lever.

[craigjames]

The frustration I've had with my Tech4s from the start has been the wandering bite point and the fact the pads don't seem to retract enough, so they always rub. You spend time setting them up as perfectly as you can, ride 2 metres and they're rubbing again. They've been this way straight out of the box from Hope, not what I expected for how much they cost. I've rebuilt them since with new pistons and seals, had the mounts spot faced etc and no change.

Sure they look nice, but they just don't seem to perform with any consistency and i've just left the bike hanging in the garage since.

[Lucky124]

That sounds to me like a problem of the seal in the lever. If you set up the saddle accurate and have a disc which isn't bend, your bite point shouldn't wander.

A friend sent back his tech 4 to hope customer service and got a replacement. I have heard there where some issues in the early batches. Replacement of the seal in the leaver wouldn't help if the cylinder has mechanical imperfections like ridges (I mean the little metal pieces after mechanical manufacturing, how is it called?), scratches or a non-round shape of the cylinder.

Your note that the pistons in the saddle doesn't come back enough, I could imagine that this is another hint that the lever has a problem with the seal. The seals in the saddle should pull back the pistons, but I think also the fluid which is running back from saddle in the lever should pull the pistons back too (hydraulic fluid isn't compressible). If your lever piston seal is bad, less fluid comes back so the pads remain still too close to the discs. 

You can further test If you keep pulling the lever, if it wanders slowly to the bar, or hear if the lever makes noises.

I would contact hope support (without saying them that you have replaced seals by yourself). I hope that hope replaces your brakes.

Edited September 27 by Lucky124

[craigjames]

You may be right and my set were one of the first to come out, new discs etc, the problem has been there from the start. Sadly well past the warranty period now, but hey ho, live and learn! Might disassemble the lever body, have a look for any poor machining finish and polish it up, fit new seals etc. Getting old now and haven't really ridden it since i've been dealing with all these problems, the bike will probably just stay in my garage as wall art 😄

[Ali C]

My understanding was that with such a big caliper piston there’s more chance of the piston coming out slightly angled and not retracting fully.

combined with an alloy piston and tight tolerances it’s more prone to becoming sticky due to mud, dust or other debris which further aggravates the issue.

 

[craigjames]

I don't disbelieve that explanation either, it makes sense. Sadly both my front and rear brake were like this out of the box and both calipers have subsequently been disassembled, thoroughly cleaned, lubed and rebuilt with new seals with no improvement