Mike Poyzer @ Onza
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Posts posted by Mike Poyzer @ Onza
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We fit the bashring on the 20" range purely for the Euro standards as effectively a chain guard. We would like to omit bash plates but the facts are that a large proportion of potential trials riders, especially youngsters, think that if its got no bashguard its not a trials bike. So we have to hope that eventually it will become outmoded as a fashion thing. We have considered producing higher end frames with bash fittings or no bash fittings as options but added to all the brake options which operate, it becomes a nightmare.
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Just to let everyone know that the new range is being shipped to shops as from today, all models including the new Zoot and Mini Master will be available. Also, its worth mentioning that both the new Comp and Blade are available as frame only. The Comp ( 1000, +70 and 350) weighing in at 1.47 K and the Blade (1020, +70 and 350) weighing in at 1.53K. Both retail at £179.99.
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Having checked these out in Taipei we felt that the HS11 is going to be the most popular. They both now have plastic bodies and and the only difference between 33 and 11 was the finish but the price differential was still the same. The two bolt clamp is a major advance for us as cycle producers as we currently have to run UK and Continental specs. They are also having 2, 3 or 4 finger levers. There was no mention there of maintaining the old version.
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the Pro frame kit as in not the upcoming Ice 24"...but a Zoot Pro?!
Sorry...I got a little lost there
The Zoot Pro Frame Kit is just what it says. A U6 Zoot Frame with added higher spec, ie magura mounts, cnc rear dropouts. It comes in a display box with matching 24" alloy fork, matching pivotal seat and new Zoot Pro sealed headset. This is under construction now and will be available in a few weeks.
The Ice 24 is a TGS project with a sample available shortly. If it proves a goer it will be available probably in about 3 months.
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I am afraid that the issues are with the Tensile cranks and not the frames. The Tensiles were designed around 2003 and had a lower Q factor (offset) than many cranks. We know that this now causes problems with modern frames, which have very low backstays. In conjunction with current super wide rims ie. 49/50 mm. this causes cranks, particularly 170 and 175mm to catch the brakes. The solution is to use wider BB's but this affects the chain line, throwing it too far out. We need to re design the cranks and have done so twice. The problem is that the current forged billet will not allow an increased offset before CNC machining, so tooling costs are astronomical. We want to make sure we get it right before making that sort of investment. The straightness of Tensile cranks is one of the reasons why they are so stiff, so increasing the offset could reduce that stiffness. In addition we are looking at different B/B styles ie int. or ext. bearings, etc. which can affect the width. Unfortunately this is a work in progress as there are so many variables and a solution is not immediate. As a short term fix we are looking at a screw on bashguard with a built in extension and a new thread which allows use of a 127 or even a 135 bb, but leaves the freewheel in the same position. When we build a bike these days with these issues we suggest a narrower rim. ie a 42/43 Hog or a Ronnie.
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I am afraid we definitely have NO old Zoot frames in stock.
I can reveal however that after long discussions in Taiwan last week we are introducing a TGS 24" frame and Joe is still there at the factory finalising the details this week, (along with details on many other frames). First prototype should be here in about 2 to 3 weeks with production scheduled in about 2 to 3 months. No other details yet except to say that we are basing design on the Ice so it could be the Ice 24. Would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on geo., ie BB height, wheelbase and chainstays.
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I don't really think that eloquence comes into it. Eloquence is the powerful and effective use of language to be persuasive in an argument. Unfortunately you contradict yourself very clearly, which negates your claim to eloquence. You go to great pains to say that your statements are purely your own opinion but then go on to suggest that its "bad graphic design". You are thus becoming the arbiter of taste in design, and effectively saying that because you don't like it, it is bad design per se. You further more go on to suggest that in future we appoint a "good" graphic designer, without having any idea who actually carried out our design work. on this occasion. All I can say is that we are happy to accept any criticism of our products and designs, but please don't suggest that because you don't like it, it is therefore bad. In our defense all I can say is that we have had shows all last week in the UK and this week in Ireland and have received virtual universal praise at the designs and looks of the bikes. Extensive pictures have now been sent to all our distributors across Europe, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Japan and there has been a massive response in favour of them, also reflected in large increases in orders over last years range. I think most of the comments on this thread also indicate a very positive response.
With regards to the forks, both the standard Zoot fork and the Zoot Pro alloy fork will definitely find their way into this years parts range. There is some debate over whether we should go for a straight fork or a curved fork in the standard Zoot. We went initially for a curved fork, but would be interested in any arguments or reasons for either style.
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Pictures of the Zoot before cleaning for catalogue.
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Every Onza comes with a bell, reflectors and service manual.
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That's just stupid.
So how do tartybikes get away with selling bikes without guards? Couldn't you design a cheap plastic one that could be taken off really really easily? It'd be cheaper, lighter and less expensive.
Custom builds do not fall under the scope of this legislation. If he sell anything other than custom builds without a chainguard, then he is breaking the law.
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British Standards and the new Euro Standards. All chainrings must have a guard when sold at retail.
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The Zoot looks amazing!
Whats the geo on the 20 inch's riser bars? What bars do they feel similar to?
9 degrees backsweep and 9 upsweep. I think thats the same as the old rage bars and new inspired ones.
Here's the Rips, RRP £319.99
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Are you sure they are not the dual fitting mounts which we fitted for a couple of years. They had an extra pair of holes in a groove in the well of the fitting. You then got a small alloy block with a hole in it which fitted either at the bottom of the slot if using a 20" back wheel or at the top of the slot if using a 19" back wheel. You then used an extra long bolt on that end. You cannot use the frame with Maguras without the little block. If you haven't got the blocks you are welcome to contact us if you cannot source them. Don't want to be accused of advertising.
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Are we able to see picture of the comp,rip and zoot ?
EDIT: fantastic job joe! Love ALL the graphics so far!
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The Super Cycles site is still functional but, for various reasons, we have done nothing to it now for over 3 years. This means that, as people have said, a lot of items are no longer in stock. We have a major project under way to remedy this situation which will be launched this year. In the meantime, if you are unsure about anything listed, it would be best to ring us to order. However, you can use the site safely as it is not a live payment site and if your item is out of stock, no payment will be taken and you will be informed as such.
I was speaking to the owners son, get your orders in asap, he is selling to Rayleigh =[.I assume you mean Raleigh (I don't think the town in Essex is in the bike business). This is complete rubbish.
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I feel there is a demand for it, and it's very large at the moment as there isn't a non-street 24" frame to date. Although, if you guys are just starting to think about designing one, by the time it gets round to being available to the public you'll probably be competing with a handful of models by then. But Onza usually hard to compete with with regards to value so it would well be worth looking into.
I feel the only reason a 24" non-street frame / bike hasn't been designed till now is because there just hasn't been the components that would suit it, however now that echo have come out with all sorts of 24" forks and rims, there's nothing stopping people.
In terms of the frame, we have several prototypes currently under wraps and it would be very quick and easy to pick one of them and modify its geometry to suit. Also in components, it is only the forks and rims which are different and we have the Reggie and Ronnie 24's already plus the Araya Star 24" disc rims and we have the Zoot fork so again, quick and easy.
The biggest problem I can see here is that this thread has thrown up a whole series of wants and requirements and you could end up with a dozen new models to suit everybody. Its like designing by committee. Like someone else said you are getting a Jack of All Trades but Master of None but isn't that what we are looking for?
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Our original Zoot was a T-Rex frame modified to something close to Inspired geometry. We produce a couple of hundred and sold them all and to this day we get asked for them usually at least once a week. Most advice at the time told us that 24" was street and a much more hybridised Trials/Bmx was what was wanted in that market. The new Zoot has therefore moved in that direction. Now we are being told that there is a demand for a TGS 24" based around the Limey. Is it just a few loud shouters magnifying the requirement or is there a genuine grass roots demand. Can anyone tell me the potential for such a bike in competition use. I thought they were banned but now I am not sure as there have been so many rule changes recently. If that is still the case, where is the market and who would buy it, given that it would not be in a starter bike price bracket whether a frame or a complete cycle.
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We always listen. Convince us that there is a market for a 24" Limey with whatever the necessary geometry is and we will make it. We'll probably cock it up with shite paint and crappy graphics though.
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Now we're finished in here, have a look here. Regardless of what's gone before in this thread that's in no way a dig at you, just that you guys are obviously the best ones to answer such questions.
Unfortunately not always so. As Joe said we build bikes from what is kicking around in the factory, essentially Onza and Tensile parts. When you introduce Echo, Zoo, Try-All etc. parts we are no wiser than anyone else so that is one of the reasons for a Forum like this. We are aware of the thread and Joe or myself would of course offer any assistance where we could. Help will also inevitably come from other sources ,however, from people familiar with the problem which has been encountered.
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If it's not the colour you chose I hope you've negotiated a discount with the factory?
I'm starting (!) to get rude because I'm repeating myself over and over (along with comments from a lot of others in this thread (and that Cleaner)) and at no point have you or Mike taken a step back and said 'ok, maybe next time we'll make sure the frames come back the colour we ordered/we'll be having words with the factory/maybe we could spend a bit more time on graphics' Mike just keeps telling me Onza designed every frame in the world and you didn't even mention it wasn't the colour it was supposed to be until halfway through the thread...
I've tried to be fairly constructive but this doesn't seem to have been taken on board in the slightest.
Correction. You were rude from your very first comment on the thread. Might I remind you "Joe, please please please, go onto ebay and buy some taste please". You have picked up this campaign on one frame out of many which we produce and which has had many good comments as well as bad, and then to reinforce your point you take us back six years to the T-Rex. (Which incidentally we sold well over a thousand of) You then pepper your postings with comments like "bad colour choices and crap graphics" "tackiest paint job ever" and "they continue to make bad decisions".
To reinforce your comments you show me two bikes which could have been made for the 2 tone generation. You tell me how wonderful the development of the Inspired designs have been. You then tell me that BMXers who apparently are completely devoid of taste, would like the Inspired designs.
Contrary to your belief I am happy to admit that we have made mistakes over the years in colours, designs, graphics and all aspects of our business. On the whole however our decisions have been good otherwise we would not be where we are now, probably the leading trials bike company in the world. Despite doubling our worldwide production of bikes, we are once more virtually sold out of 20" bikes and will have no stock until end of March, 2010. We take all comments on board when we ask the trials community for their opinions, and we incorporate opinions into our products. Joe and myself have worked tirelessly on developing our 2010 range over the last few months and I am sure there will be things about it which people will not like. A lot of that time has been spent on colours, colour combinations and graphics and I would go as far as saying that they are the best researched and most exciting range we have ever produced.
As the self appointed arbiter of style and good taste, you have started this crusade on just one frame which is such a minor part of the business and which can be changed on the next batch so easily, if we so wished. A simple "Sorry, I don't like it", would have sufficed. I get the point now, you don't like our colours and graphics, okay. Luckily for us your opinions are not as universal as you seem to think.
These are my last words on this subject.
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I was just taking issue with your assertion that " it was probably put together by a rider and a bit of consideration was put in before releasing it at a show and publishing pictures". You say that the parts are generic and I am saying that the frame is generic. I doubt that a rider came anywhere near it, if the frame has the same inbuilt disadvantages that we encountered.
We have just completed a build of the 320 and it looks stunning. The owner was over the moon with it. I was just looking at this thread with a BMX rider who commented that both your white with black bikes pictured look revolting. As we have said many times, you can ask a hundred people to select their favourite colours and graphics and you will get a hundred different answers. This is a very small market with small batches being made and we constantly experiment with colours and graphics and virtually every one who has seen this frame in the flesh, likes it.
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As an aside, as another quick example, take Univega:
Now that's their first trials frame (that I'm aware of) and comes from a company which tends to be pretty budget I think. Now that also looks a hell of a lot better than the build in the first post of this thread which says to me it was probably put together by a rider and a bit of consideration was put in before releasing it at a show and publishing pictures. Colour scheme: pretty funky, works with the frame shape and without the name could've bee nmistaken for a Koxx, Atomz or similar top line jobby. Components: fairly generic but all look fairly good on the bike and the red rims set it off. Little touches...
Erm, except that that is a frame which we helped to develop several years ago and which we almost launched as the Dual until we rejected it after extensive testing, and which the maker has been hawking around ever since, trying to find a punter. Looks like hes found one.
Okay, so they've modified it to a 20" but its sure is the same frame.
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--------------All rockmans= Yuk asthetic concept but you don't see many people slagging them/constructively criticizing them why target ONZA?
I think a major influence in the concept of the colour scheme of this bike is titled "plagiarism"
From Rockman the idea to anodize it- Not a bad idea in principal but Gold is not a good colour to choose really, I will not mind betting the farm that most of these bikes that stay gold will end up looking almost identical because there are only so many schemes that will work without looking puke.
That is complete rubbish. Does anyone remember the 2004 T-Pro produced a long time before Rockman bought our Limey 1 from us, which set them on the road to source their own frames. Does anyone recall its champagne GOLD hard anodized finish. We have been anodizing frames on and off for almost all of our 10+ years history.
Anodizing is a very difficult process to achieve consistency. You don't mix a tin of anodize to get the colour. This frame looks pretty good in the flesh, but as Joe said it is not quite the colour we chose. Nevertheless it has gone down pretty well and we have virtually no stock left. Bear in mind that our anodizer lists just one green finish and in a period of a year we have had four various prototype items in green and they are all different in shade. We only had five forks made in the matching finish to the frame and even they are fractionally different to the frame as they were done at a different time.
We have looked at supplying separate sticker sets, but apart from the warranty implications of unbranded frames, all our decals are applied under the laquer and the quality of stickers applied post purchase is not of the level which we would be prepared to use as original equipment.
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It's very difficult to sell a budget frame as the only people looking to buy a frame are generally looking for a higher quality one, and the blade is at the bottom rung of the ladder.
U6 alloy tubing, CNC rear dropouts with built in tensioners and disc mounts, at 1.54 kilos, a lot lighter than many frames at twice its price. You just need to find a customer who sees beyond his prejudices.
Onza Cls Proto.
in Trials Chat
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Hot off the press. First picture of final production prototype of the CLS. New HF down tube and some minor tweaks. The colour is just us playing with two colour anodizing ie the green graphics are also anodized, so please, please, please dont come on saying you don't like the colours or finish. They are not the actual production colours. The frame should be here on Tuesday along with four other prototypes, the TGS 24,Limey 4, Zoot 26 and a new ultra light 26".