Tartridge Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 That cant be true, why would Koxx allow other companies to sell their products at prices competitive to their own? The amount of T Pros sold compared to levelbosses is quite different i would imagine. Where Monty would make money wih their tensiles, Koxx would lose money by creating a competitor for themselves, which is, quite frankly, stupid. ← Once Koxx get Pulo to make the frame for them, if they don't order enough to guarantee exclusivity, the frame can be bought by anyone. Its not Koxxs choice to 'sell' the frame to Onza, or let Onza sell it. T-Pros sold more than Levelbosses because theyre at a realistic price. And i have no idea what you mean with the second paragraph, sorry. Edit: Mark, the IP rights belong to Pulo, if there are any that is. $60 is the approximate production cost of a Levelboss frame. The T-Pro is nearly double that. Dont forget shipping, taxes... etc... etc... as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Ah, fair enough Ad. I thought the IP would be with Koxx, if they were the ones who designed the frame and had it put into production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Ah, fair enough Ad. I thought the IP would be with Koxx, if they were the ones who designed the frame and had it put into production. ← Not once they've struck a deal with Pulo. Pulo may allow them to keep the rights IF they commit to ordering enough (we're talking tens of thousands). Normally impossible with Pulo cos trials is too small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 I'm guessing that's the same thing that's happened with Tensiles then? What I don't get is why it took 3 years or so for Pulo to sell that Levelboss frame in their catalogue, unless Onza were uber slow or something? 'cos the Levelboss frame's been out since 2000-ish (although with the disc mount then)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeee Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Mike sends design over, they make cranks. Minimum order of... a lot... in order for them to use the material specified. They may be in catalogues now, but as far as im aware/have been told, the design was originally from Nottingham. ← Who told you that information Adam? Mike the owner of Super Cycles? I'm sure if i went down to the Monty HQ in Barcelona , Spain. Ot pi would tell me the same story but changing these words. Mike to Ot Nottingham to Barcelona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 How d'you work that out? Seeing as SuperCycles were selling them first, and me, Dave and Ad (I think?) were all given proto cranks to try out almost over 2 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Im guessing so, although Mike usually tries to keep his stuff exclusive... I dunno how that came about, but I would hazard a guess that Koxx kept promising to buy more, in order to keep the frame exclusive as long as possible - it would be in their interests to do so, for sure. Luke - i'm sure that would be the case. But surely you have to take account of the fact that Tensile have been selling their cranks out for at least 18 months now? Wheras the first Monty/Tensile cranks appeared on team rider's bikes at the 2004 Worlds... Anyway, those new Monty cranks, they look nice, seen them before though :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 And i have no idea what you mean with the second paragraph, sorry. ← I meant that Tensile should not worry about Monty because Monty are selling the cranks at a more exclusive price, which shouldnt loose Tensile mcuh business, whereas Koxx should have planned ahead to stop other companies selling their frame for almost a third of the price, which has lost them a great deal of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 I meant that Tensile should not worry about Monty because Monty are selling the cranks at a more exclusive price, which shouldnt loose Tensile mcuh business, whereas Koxx should have planned ahead to stop other companies selling their frame for almost a third of the price, which has lost them a great deal of business. ← I wouldn't be so sure of that. Certian people who were after a Koxx Levelboss would always go for the Koxx over the Onza, just because of the name on the decals. However, they might have lost some more shrewd customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeee Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 I'm not disputing who got them first. But i'm sure if someone down Romford market rebaged these cranks as "Dodgy Geezers" then he would tell you there designed in romford and all the other rubbish. There bought from a catologue. Its as simple as that. They were gonna be branded Syncros at one point weren't they? Oh an its not uncommon if your gonna be buying a thousand or so pairs of cranks for them to send you a few proto ones to try out. You may even have a small input in changing something(If your buying enough). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 SuperCycles bought the rights to trade under Syncros, but there was some hissy fit with GT so they altered it. Plus the Syncros's's's's' were a bit different, I seem to remember? Like a sort of early version of them, but not. I wouldn't have thought that many catalogues would have some front freewheel threaded cranks with that bashring and that setup with replaceable pedal threads and so on? Unless someone designed them first? Maybe the company that actually put them into production before the other company even started testing them with their top riders? Maybe the company who even said that Tensile was keeping as the brand that was just selling SuperCycles/Onza designed products. But there we go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeee Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 SuperCycles bought the rights to trade under Syncros, but there was some hissy fit with GT so they altered it. Plus the Syncros's's's's' were a bit different, I seem to remember? Like a sort of early version of them, but not. I wouldn't have thought that many catalogues would have some front freewheel threaded cranks with that bashring and that setup with replaceable pedal threads and so on? Unless someone designed them first? Maybe the company that actually put them into production before the other company even started testing them with their top riders? Maybe the company who even said that Tensile was keeping as the brand that was just selling SuperCycles/Onza designed products. But there we go... ← I know what happened with Syncros i just thought i'd mention the quick brand name change to point out you can have whatever you like stamped/etched on the crank arm if you buy enough. The bashrings are more 'Brand specific' i would say. Replaceable pedal threads is a common factor on the two cranks in question. You and i both know there just bought from a catologue. No doubt there are factors you can change but the basic design of the cranks stays the same. People talk of the 'Monty Mafia' at the world champs but its quite funny we seem to have the 'Onza mafia' right at home on trials forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 You and i both know there just bought from a catologue. ← Find me them in a catalogue dated BEFORE Monty released theirs, and i'll believe you :lol: Edit: Actually, no, find me them in a catalogue before Onza/Tensile released them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeee Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Do you really think i'm that petty? I really couldn't be arsed to search through catologue after catologue to prove a point. I'm Sure that kinda thing is right up your ally Adam but not mine. :lol: My comment still stands : You and i both know there just bought from a catologue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Do you really think i'm that petty? You and i both know there just bought from a catologue. ← You seem to be from the looks of this thread, thats all. I dont - and my point still stands - if you can prove it to me, then i shall believe you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeee Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 You seem to be from the looks of this thread, thats all. I dont - and my point still stands - if you can prove it to me, then i shall believe you. ← Actually i was gonna add you to MSN to discuss it on there but your Adam@tartybikes didn't seem to work. Could you prove to me that Mike designed them himself? Or someone in nottingham did before they were able to buy from a taiwanese or chiense bike book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Actually i was gonna add you to MSN to discuss it on there but your Adam@tartybikes didn't seem to work. Could you prove to me that Mike designed them himself? Or someone in nottingham did before they were able to buy from a taiwanese or chiense bike book? ← Sure, I'll PM you my MSN address. No, I cant - its a similar situation to the Levelboss/T-Pro though really, I guess. None of us can *prove* anything, but everything points quite clearly to one sequence of events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Section7 news page with the Tensile cranks on it, dated September 2003. Notice how the Monty team didn't use them til way after? That would kinda rule out Monty having designed them, which you seemed to be claiming earlier. When I had to interview Mike previously too about SuperCycles business, marketing and R&D strategies, he kept stating then about how they were keeping Tensile as a seperate brand selling only stuff that they had created. The Onza brand is still doing some stuff which is just catalogue bought, but they said they were using Tensile just to sell their own parts. If Tensiles were just bought from a catalogue, why was Mike so emphatic about stating the difference between the Tensile brand and the other SuperCycles brands? Equally, the Syncros cranks do appear to be an earlier version of the Tensiles which Chris Akrigg tested to see how he liked them. This all suggests it was in-house design. Anyway, believe what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeee Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Section7 news page with the Tensile cranks on it, dated September 2003. Notice how the Monty team didn't use them til way after? That would kinda rule out Monty having designed them, which you seemed to be claiming earlier. When I had to interview Mike previously too about SuperCycles business, marketing and R&D strategies, he kept stating then about how they were keeping Tensile as a seperate brand selling only stuff that they had created. The Onza brand is still doing some stuff which is just catalogue bought, but they said they were using Tensile just to sell their own parts. If Tensiles were just bought from a catalogue, why was Mike so emphatic about stating the difference between the Tensile brand and the other SuperCycles brands? Equally, the Syncros cranks do appear to be an earlier version of the Tensiles which Chris Akrigg tested to see how he liked them. This all suggests it was in-house design. Anyway, believe what you want. ← I didn't say Monty designed them. They bought them out of a book. They may of had a small amount of input in how there batch came. But bought from a book none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-L-B Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 [url=http://www.section7.co.uk/news.pl?155] When I had to interview Mike previously too about SuperCycles business, marketing and R&D strategies, he kept stating then about how they were keeping Tensile as a seperate brand selling only stuff that they had created. The Onza brand is still doing some stuff which is just catalogue bought, but they said they were using Tensile just to sell their own parts. If Tensiles were just bought from a catalogue, why was Mike so emphatic about stating the difference between the Tensile brand and the other SuperCycles brands← Unilever own most of the shampoo brands you see in your supermarket. However, the products are all sold under different brand names. Different brands are put at different prices regardless of production processes or whatever. Keeping them separate this way gives the illision of exclusivity with some products. The people paying £5 for their Nicky Clarke shampoo might turn their noses up if it was sold as Asda shampoo for the same price. I'm not claiming that Tensiles are over-priced, just that keeping the brands separate is a good market strategy. I'm due back to work now, but you get the picture... Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Yeah, I know what you mean Mr. Dan. I was just pointing out that they have actually specifically created Tensile to show-case their own products; similar I guess to how Mr. Deng - or whoever - owns Echo (typically their 'own' designs) and ZOO! (typically their own take on other people's designs). I don't know the trade price of Tensiles so I can't comment either on VFM, but I have a strong feeling that these are actually an in-house production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 I don't know the trade price of Tensiles so I can't comment either on VFM, but I have a strong feeling that these are actually an in-house production. ← Not really... its not as if Supercycles own any factories! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Sorry, yeah, I meant it was designed by them, or at least they had a large part in the design of the finished product... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 So really what you are all saying is that, Onza designed the tensile cranks, had a factory in taiwan make them. This factory has then gone on to sell the tensiles to monty which pissed onza right off (quite rightly so). Exactly what I said at the beginning. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picki Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Unilever own most of the shampoo brands you see in your supermarket. However, the products are all sold under different brand names. Different brands are put at different prices regardless of production processes or whatever. Keeping them separate this way gives the illision of exclusivity with some products. The people paying £5 for their Nicky Clarke shampoo might turn their noses up if it was sold as Asda shampoo for the same price. I'm not claiming that Tensiles are over-priced, just that keeping the brands separate is a good market strategy. I'm due back to work now, but you get the picture... Dan ← like heinz beans and tesco beans! they ARE the same beans! anyways, if monty have some half decent cranks it saves them shoving those shitty sugino things on....damn they were nasty cranks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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