Koxx Rim In Onza T-rex Frame

[Heatsink]

Hi,

Is anyone running a Koxx rim in a T-rex with Maguras? It would be really useful to know if I can do this.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

yes you can do it , it fits fine.

some people may have had trouble with pads but i think it was only massive pads.

my 47mm fits fine , and its buckled as a very buckled thing.

i've got normal plaz crm pads in there , and have had them in there from new.

no problems as of yet

[Onza Kieron]

No problems unless you buy huge pads or the Heatsink CNC backings, then it gets abit tight.

[Heatsink]

No problems unless you buy huge pads or the Heatsink CNC backings, then it gets abit tight.

Tight but doable? This sounds great - thanks for confirming the frame and rim combo is a goer

Steve

P.S. I guess this thread can be closed now

[N.Wood]

Yeh i think the only problem came with your 10mm pads, Steve.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

Cue T-rex compatible CNC backings

[BikeDotStuffAtOnzaDotCom]

We routinely fit the Hog rim (same rim) to the T-Rex, so as far as I know there's no problem. But in case you DO have problems needing extra adjustment - like fat brake blocks - we might have an answer. This is relevant because as far as I know there's nothing else like this...

Yeh i think the only problem came with your 10mm pads, Steve.

I know Supercycles has had early samples of the new Tensile (patented) offset Magura mounts. They are still working on them to make sure they work properly both ways, but the idea is to let the Magura body in or out an extra 5mm each side (10mm extra in total compared to normal Magura mounts). They have some for 2mm each side as well (4mm extra in total).

They're still working on the right shape to be able to move the calipers in 5mm, but they work fine if you need a little extra width. You'd have to get in touch to see if you could have some, though.

You can see pictures here:

Front view

Side view

[Deonn h]

Yeh its fine my mate is running that combo.

[tipsy Jock]

That is pure genuis!

[Heatsink]

That's a useful variant of the clamps! Surely nothing you could patent though? Maybe I've misunderstood but isn't the change just moving the position of the clamping recess? When available I'm sure there will be some demand for those parts whether they are patented or not.

I guess the simplest thing to do is just run pads which are slimmer. Backings are typically 7.5mm thick (it might be 7mm, I need to check with the calipers) and pads 6mm, total = 13.5mm. I've made thicker pads available (first 10mm and now 8mm) with the goal of offering the best value for money. The CNCed backings are 9mm thick (reason is to minimise rocking by elongating the wing length), and so run in conjuction with 6mm pads makes them only 1.5mm higher than standard pads, and actually 0.5mm lower than the 8mm pads I have in plastic backings.

To make pads slimmer this is the best method I've found. It's a hand sander just sitting upside down on the bench. It's possible to take them down to the right height really accurately if you only grind for a few seconds at a time.

Be careful though. I pushed too hard and my hand slipped onto the belt when it got drawn into the machine.

^ Marvel at my slight bent forefinger. Maybe I broke it at some point without realising!

Steve

We routinely fit the Hog rim (same rim) to the T-Rex, so as far as I know there's no problem. But in case you DO have problems needing extra adjustment - like fat brake blocks - we might have an answer. This is relevant because as far as I know there's nothing else like this...

I know Supercycles has had early samples of the new Tensile (patented) offset Magura mounts. They are still working on them to make sure they work properly both ways, but the idea is to let the Magura body in or out an extra 5mm each side (10mm extra in total compared to normal Magura mounts). They have some for 2mm each side as well (4mm extra in total).

They're still working on the right shape to be able to move the calipers in 5mm, but they work fine if you need a little extra width. You'd have to get in touch to see if you could have some, though.

You can see pictures here:

Front view

Side view

[Mike Poyzer @ Onza]

You can patent anything which is an improvement on an original design. This design vastly broadens the range of rim widths which can be used in a four bolt magura frame. I quote from the UK Patent office.

"Patents are generally intended to cover products or processes that possess or contain new functional or technical aspects; patents are therefore concerned with, for example, how things work, what they do, how they do it, what they are made of or how they are made.

The vast majority of patents are for incremental improvements in known technology; it has been said that innovation is evolution rather than revolution."

[BikeDotStuffAtOnzaDotCom]

Off topic a bit, but:

To make pads slimmer this is the best method I've found. It's a hand sander just sitting upside down on the bench. It's possible to take them down to the right height really accurately if you only grind for a few seconds at a time.

Very dodgy. If you have one handy, attach the block to the magura caliper and hold onto that instead? The setup you've described looks like a recipe for sanded-off fingertips.

[Pauly]

We routinely fit the Hog rim (same rim) to the T-Rex, so as far as I know there's no problem. But in case you DO have problems needing extra adjustment - like fat brake blocks - we might have an answer. This is relevant because as far as I know there's nothing else like this...

I know Supercycles has had early samples of the new Tensile (patented) offset Magura mounts. They are still working on them to make sure they work properly both ways, but the idea is to let the Magura body in or out an extra 5mm each side (10mm extra in total compared to normal Magura mounts). They have some for 2mm each side as well (4mm extra in total).

They're still working on the right shape to be able to move the calipers in 5mm, but they work fine if you need a little extra width. You'd have to get in touch to see if you could have some, though.

You can see pictures here:

Front view

Side view

That is pure genuis!

[MaXsteri]

I for one would definitely be interested in those mounts when they are available, my pads are nearly dead and the last time i changed them i had to grind alot or material off the pad

Thats on a T-Rex with an Echo 06 rim and CRMs btw

[Heatsink]

Thanks for that Mike

It's an interesting one this. The key words I've heard used for patentable concepts are "Novel" and "Not obvious". Possibly the original Magura mounting arrangement with the spherical clamping, plastic inserts and ribbed calipers used in the field of pedal bikes would be patent material, and on the other hand, useful though it is, surely drilling mounting holes in a different position would not be a novel or un-obvious concept. Of course I could be completely wrong on this! I don't want to dis the new clamps or the idea, just engage in a debate about whether it's patentable.

Give us a shout when the patent is approved and I will have learnt something!

Steve

You can patent anything which is an improvement on an original design. This design vastly broadens the range of rim widths which can be used in a four bolt magura frame. I quote from the UK Patent office.

"Patents are generally intended to cover products or processes that possess or contain new functional or technical aspects; patents are therefore concerned with, for example, how things work, what they do, how they do it, what they are made of or how they are made.

The vast majority of patents are for incremental improvements in known technology; it has been said that innovation is evolution rather than revolution."

[Todge]

Thanks for that Mike

It's an interesting one this. The key words I've heard used for patentable concepts are "Novel" and "Not obvious". Possibly the original Magura mounting arrangement with the spherical clamping, plastic inserts and ribbed calipers used in the field of pedal bikes would be patent material, and on the other hand, useful though it is, surely drilling mounting holes in a different position would not be a novel or un-obvious concept. Of course I could be completely wrong on this! I don't want to dis the new clamps or the idea, just engage in a debate about whether it's patentable.

Give us a shout when the patent is approved and I will have learnt something!

Steve

Surely if they were gonna be patented then they would have been done by now?

Cant patent something when its in the public domain

[Ali C]

great minds think alike, I had the same idea for mounts a while ago, nice to see it was a reasonable idea

[flipkickbs]

I actually did that (way sketchier though).

I was desperate to ride, but i didn't have any 4 bolt clamps, so i just ran regular clamps on 4 bolt mounts :$ . My rim was too wide though so i put the mounts backwards and it allowed me to have the cylinders further from the rim.

But looking at the pics, i think your way is better

Ian

[Mike Poyzer @ Onza]

It is certainly novel as it cures a problem voiced many times on this forum. If it was obvious it would have been done a long time ago. Standard Magura mounts have been around for many years now and the advent of wider rims some years ago would surely have produced this result some time ago if it was "obvious". It was not merely moving holes but is an offset design which is reversable and greatly extends the scope for rim widths. This was our idea and concept and the patent has been lodged before last christmas. If accepted at the search stage it will be extended worldwide during the priority period.

It will be our policy in the future to patent all our new ideas, to stop copying and protect our business.

[Heatsink]

Respect is due for deciding to actively seek patents on new parts. The Magura HS33 brake system is a shining example of how putting this protection in place at the outset (with the associated finanicial and time demands) was worthwhile in the long run.

I'm always asking myself about the patentability of things I'm working on, so would be interested to see if these new clamps would be judged suitable since the concept is argueably similar to some of the types of improvements I aim to incorporate into components. It could be that my perception of a patentable concept needs refinement. I've built up this understanding from working for a Design consultancy for several years where IP is always used where applicable so would welcome the chance to find some exceptions to what I considered to be a non-fruitful IP area.

I hope it works out and doesn't cost too much in the process!

Steve

It is certainly novel as it cures a problem voiced many times on this forum. If it was obvious it would have been done a long time ago. Standard Magura mounts have been around for many years now and the advent of wider rims some years ago would surely have produced this result some time ago if it was "obvious". It was not merely moving holes but is an offset design which is reversable and greatly extends the scope for rim widths. This was our idea and concept and the patent has been lodged before last christmas. If accepted at the search stage it will be extended worldwide during the priority period.

It will be our policy in the future to patent all our new ideas, to stop copying and protect our business.

[Onza Kieron]

I don't see why this has'nt been screamed about yet, its a greta idea, bring back the D521 I would definatly be wanting some, or even testing some