Scoox

Yesterday I went ahead and tried to remove my cranks from my old bike to be installed on my new bike. I removed the crank bolts and attempted to remove one side with a crank removal tool. I started turning the tool but it got jammed. Unscrewed the tool off and tried the other crank, exerting as much force as possible. No joy AND I partially stripped the threads on the crank. I took off the crank removal tool once more and looked closer. Then I noticed that the crank bolt washers hadn't come out with the bolt because they had become firmly attached to the cranks after one year of riding. Funny because I had applied ParkTool anti-seize compound. I tried prying the washers out with a screw driver but it wouldn't budge. Surely I am not the first one, so is there a way to get these suckers out?

I tapped the think *slightly* with a piece of wood and it got stiffer. FSB*. Now the crank doesn't even drop like in the animation above, it just stays horizontal. *FSB = f**kshitbollocks

With one crank only it won't turn much, see animation below. The crank is an Echo TR 170mm non-drive side crank. How long have you had yours and has it got better over time?

Hi everyone. So I just received my brand-new Echo 20" frame and the press-fit integrated bottom bracket is unusually stiff. If I turn it by hand it feels like unscrewing a stiff bottle cap. When I remember my Echo 24 having a stiff-ish bottom bracket when I got it last year, but nowhere near as stiff as this one, so I wonder if this is normal and whether or not it will ease off over time. Thanks in advance for any replies!

How tall are you? I think people with long legs can benefit from long cranks.

I am in the process of putting together a mod and I am borrowing some bits from my Echo 24 (cranks, pedals, bars, stem, etc), so I thought I'd share some pics before I take it to bits. The top pic shows what the bike looked like before Echo kindly swapped the black forks and bars for raw ones, and now I am trying to think which combination looks better for my new build, perhaps you guys can help me decide (post pics etc) between black and silver for following bits: Bars: Black | Silver Fork: Black | Silver Brake levers: Avid FR5 Silver | Black Headset: Black | Red (hub will be red too and nipples may also be red). Stem will defo be black as I don't want to buy a new one, and the wheels will be black rim, red hub, black spokes and red or silver nipples, spokes and nipples being supplied by the wheel builder. The third pic shows roughly what I have in mind. Incidentally, are alu nipples OK for trials or do you guys recommend standard brass / steel nipples?

Why is it that a lot of stock frames are equipped with a solid CNC bottom bracket yoke that the chain stays are welded onto, while on most mods the chain stays are welded directly to the bottom bracket? For me that's the biggest difference between a mod and a stock frame. Wouldn't mods also benefit from this type of set-up? Also, stock frames usually only have rim brake mounts.

I also thought these holes are punched, so basically the price difference is just hype. Of course to Dremel your own rims would be way too much hassle, so they can charge whatever they want. Thanks also for explaining why single-walls are bouncier!

Nice nice nice, I am all for splined hubs now!

Sure, but the bounciness should come from the tire, not from the rim. The w ay you phrased that sounded to me like single-wall rims would feel bouncy because of flex, otherwise I don't see how single-wall vs double-wall would make any difference to how bouncy the wheels are. Anyway, in the end I am just going to get the Becasue rims, I've used Echo TR rims for a year and a half without problems and I expect the Because ones to be similar. Since they are for a mod I don't think the weight penalty of a rear double-wall rim won't be too taxing.

I am not sure how much extra manufacturing cost is added by drilling a little more, certainly not enough to warrant the huge price difference, but anyway... that's the way the world. Regarding the bounciness, how is that a good thing? Thanks

Brad, that's on a stock though, isn't it? However I am easily biased and your comment is tipping the scales the double-wall way. What rim do you use now? How noticable are the weight savings associated with a single-wall rear rim? I know there are many nice single-wall rim options but I want red rims and here in China I tend to just buy locally produced stuff (imported stuff is too expensive) so my options are limited to Zhi, Because and Neon. By the way, while researching rims I notice that single wall rims (e.g. Neon) are much more expensive than their double-wall counterparts (e.g. Because), despite having bigger holes and considerably less material even without the holes. I know for a fact that the cut-outs get sold on as scrap so here is my question: W.T.F.? Gentlemen, this is some interesting shit: the price of holes is going up!

thanks man

Hi everyone, I am curious if anyone here uses Neon single-wall rims, I am debating getting these or the Because ones. I haven't found much info about these and as usual the manufacturer provides hardly any info, so your opinions will be very helpful. I am somewhat worried about the shape of the cut-outs especially the insanely stupid notches between the spoke holes, because I read this thread a while ago. The aluminium in that Try-All rim got stretched at the narrowest point, and in the case of the Neon rims... well, anybody with a basic understanding of mechanics of materials knows that notches are stress raisers. Had these Neon rims NOT had the notches I would have bought them in a heartbeat... And here is the sort of thing I would have liked: As you can see I am very familiar with Microsoft Paint.

Cool I think I am just going to get one. When the sprocket snapped, was it very sudden or nice and "predictable"? Do you ride mod or stock? Also, I didn't realise the Neon spline was cross-compatible with other brands! That's friggin' great!

I'think I am going for gold: 3-cross throughout. Thanks for your help!

I am trying to decide between a Because and a Neon rear hub for my new mod build. All my bikes up to now have had screw-on cogs and I've had zero problems, except that they are a bitch to unscrew (and then again it wasn't that hard with an old chain and a vice. I have a question though: a screw-on cog becomes tighter the more you use it, but is there a chance the cog might bite into the hub material and develop play? I can only imagine a splined cog becoming looser over time, common sense tells me there's no way it can get tighter! Does anyone here run a splined rear hub?

Cheers guys, so basically what I am hearing is that 3x-3x or 3x-2x are the best options for a front disc set-up, which is what I thought. Radial lacing on one side works, and I know that for a fact because that's how my bike is set up at the moment, but it does feel a bit flexy, so I have a feeling that moving to one of the "stiffer" lacing patterns could be a revelation.

Hi, I need a set of wheels for my new dual-disc mod build and I am currently looking at spoke lacing patters. AFAIK all trials rear wheels are laced 3-cross left and right, so I have no questions about that. However, front wheel lacing patterns vary a lot: 0-cross (radial) both sides - Not uncommon BUT only suitable when rim brakes are used. 1-cross.... never seen it on a trials bike, why? 0-cross non-rotor side, 2-cross rotor side - My Echo 24 bike came laced this way, is this normal? Radial lacing and disc brakes seems odd, eve if it's the non-rotor side, and I can feel spoke flex when doing taps so this may be the reason? 2-cross both sides - I've seen it. 2-cross non-rotor side, 3-cross rotor side - Iv'e seen it and seems reasonable considering that the non-rotor side flange is very small on some front hubs. 3-cross both sides - Never seen it but to my mind this would be the stiffest pattern for a front disc. What lacing pattern are you using for your front wheel? I'd like to hear your opinions and recommendations. Thanks!

Yep, but had it still been in one piece I would have been very impressed!

I don't think so, according to the Echo website: MARK II TI mod: 7.8kg GU 2013 mod: 8 kg Using these cranks seems silly when they still supply the bike wit a double-wall rear rim and the tires are not the lightest out there. IMO supplying these cranks as standard would only be logical with the MARK II TI build. So what I am saying is this: If I wanted the lightest possible bike I'd buy the MARK II TI, but then I'd be upset that the cranks could have been lighter (if they supplied the 2013 model). Yet, if I wanted something a bit sturdier, I might go for the GU model, and then I'd be moaning that the cranks are too weak. So basically the 2013 crank has ended up on the wrong bike, and it shouldn't even be called "2013 crank", they should really go back to having two product lines SL and TR, which was both simple and clear.

Cool, thanks mate. Also, how's that Echo freewheel holding up? It's the new black SL, not the old SL, right? By the way the bike looks sweet, I am also getting this frame and red rims.

Are colour TR rims no longer made? All I can find is the black ones, which look kind of dull...

That's great except that you are just guessing, and it sounds like you don't even use these cranks yourself, so you may be sending the wrong message to both Echo and riders shopping for cranks. Anyway, a picture like the one in the first post is very bad press for a newly released product, and I am sure we won't see many of them around (except for those that came fitted as part of a whole bike). Personally I find it ludicrous that these are the most expensive cranks on Tarty when a) they have the least material in them, and us customers have to risk our ass beta-testing them. For me the tiny weigh savings are immaterial. I'd rather MTFU and grow some muscle to lift an extra few grams than compromise on health and safety, so I'll stick with my Try-All cranks. It's funny though that Echo supply these cranks with their GU bikes by default.

That's cool then, buying stuff online here is very safe and you can return a product if you are not happy with it, so I think I am getting a set. I was just afraid it might be a hard-to-tell fake. Cheers guys!