Scoox

I thought I'd give a quick update on these grips. It's been over a year with them and I'm still using the same gloves with the palm cut-outs (see the photo I posted). On average I ride 3 times a week, 1.5 hours a time. At the moment I have only subtle calluses but not as bad as I used to get. My hands never get painful or bleed even after a long period of inactivity (e.g. after a holiday), even with the glove cut-outs which most people would think would be more vulnerable as it's bare-handed. When the grips were brand-new they didn't conform to the shape of my hand perfectly, even though the size was about right. What has happened over time is that the points there the pressure is greater have worn down, and now it's completely ergonomic and perfect for my hand. The area near the pinky is thinner, and the area near the thumb is a little thicker. Constant diameter grips (basically most trials grips) are not a good fit to begin with. After experimenting with different set-ups, here are my conclusions: Handlebar rotation: This is an obvious one, but the the handlebars need to be installed at an angle that results in the most even distribution of pressure along the "balls" of the hand (the area where hands usually blister). Each rider is different, and trying a few bars will give you an idea of what works for you. Grip diameter: Grip diameter must be chosen to match your hand size. The idea that "the thinner the better always" is basically wrong, you don't buy shoes that are too big or too small, you buy the correct size. Too thin grips: Try grasping a pencil and imagine what would happen if that was your handlebars. The grip would constantly slide back and forth along the length of your hand's proximal phalanges, and we all know that friction leads to chafing and eventually bleeding. This is the problem I had. Too thick grips: You won't have the chafing problem but your hand won't be able to grasp the entire perimeter of the grip, which means your hands could slip off and you won't feel safe while you ride. Right size grips: You get comfort, no blisters, safe riding and confidence. If you want to experiment with different diameters bar tape is a good solution as you can start off with a generous diameter and gradually remove tape to experiment with different diameters. Ventilation and sweat: Contrary to what most people think, gloves don't always prevent blisters and may in fact make the situation worse! There is only one time when they can help prevent blisters, and that's when your grips are too thin, as the glove adds a bit of thickness. Using thicker grips achieves the same result. One thing gloves prevent for sure is ventilation, which results in more sweat, especially on the palm of the hands which is always sealed up against the grips. Wet and warm hands are more likely to chafe. Furthermore, gloves tend to wrinkle up at he base of the fingers as you grasp the grips, leading to irregular pressure distribution, which increases the chances of blisters. Try riding gloveless if you are not ready to cut holes in your gloves yet and see it for yourself (like I said, make sure you've got the right diameter grips). In my experience, in trials gloves will only protect you from minor scratches, usually on the knuckles. I also find they make my index finger more comfortable when pulling on the brake lever, that's it, and only because I my fingers are thin. Other than looking cool, gloves are pretty useless in trials. So, in summary: adjust your bars to an angle that works for you, choose the right grip size and shape, and ensure your hands are well ventilated (cut-outs or gloveless).

In the end I used a long piece of wood and a hammer, it came off easier than I expected. For removing the freewheel I had the correct Echo freewheel removal tool with a big bolt+nut through it and a bench with a big vice, but the bench was not heavy enough and it kept spinning on the floor when using a lever, so I tried to use a soft mallet instead and I kinda buggered up the freewheel removal tool as the nut kept coming loose. In the end the freewheel wouldn't budge so I just went with new Echo TR splined cranks & freewheel plus liberal amounts of anti-seize compound everywhere. Thanks for all the tips anyway!

I've just installed a brand-new pair of Echo TR platform pedals. Went for quite a long ride this afternoon and they were great, but when they spin a little bit too fast they make a squealing noise that sounds a bit like some animal on heat Magura rim brakes. I believe it's the crank-side DU bearings. Do these break in after a while or am I supposed to oil them?? Thanx BTW I've just noticed the new Echo platform pedals on their website, the don't look as strong as the previous model: http://www.echo.bike/tr-parts.html

I ordered a splined freewheel by mistake and instead of returning it I thought I'd go deeper down the rabbit hole and also order a pair of splined TR cranks to go with it and give it ago. The cranks arrived today but the retailer forgot to include the spacers, so now I have an excuse to return them If I don't think they are good enough. I put them on the kitchen scales and they weigh the same as the old threaded TR cranks: The crank itself, before CNCing, is the exact same as the old crank. After CNCing, the new cranks has a new cross section. To use I-beam terminology, the new cranks have thinner flanges and a thicker web (the bit in the middle). In the following diagram which shows the crank cross-section, (2) would be the old design, and (3) the new one. As you can see, (2) has a deeper grove but thicker flanges, while (3) has a shallower groove and thinner flanges. I'm not sure this was a good design decision; maybe someone from a mechanical design background can comment. Somehow the old design looks stiffer and beefier: Should I keep 'em or just go for threaded ones?

If it comes off with the mallet pretty easily I may not bother getting new cranks. The crank has some gashes on it but it's still fine otherwise.

Sh*t I need help! If you read my first post of this thread, back then I partially stripped the crank thread, the one that the removal tool screws onto. Today I needed to remove the crank to replace the freewheel, but apparently the amount of threading left over from the previous time wasn't enough and the crank removal tool basically came straight out, ripping through the threads. Now there's zero thread to hold onto.I've tried various tricks like inserting the removal tool at a slant but that didn't work. Now I'm stuck, can't remove the crank. I hope I don't need to Dremel it... On a related note, I am not convinced that the Park Tool anti-seize compound I used was very effective. I applied it to the BB axle and also the crank bolts. The crank bolt took a lot of torque to get turning and when it did it did so with a loud "clank" noise probably meaning thread seizure had already happened. Any recommendations on a tried-and-tested anti-seize compound?

@Ogre yeah the ENO ones seem good and look beefier but here in China I can just get the whole freewheel, no spares, which is a pity, although based on your experience they can keep going for quite a bit without replacing anything, so I might give them a go and order some spares pawls and springs when I go back home. @SamKidney did your Jitsie freewheel break? You say you only had it for a short time.

Here in China this is all I could find, which according to Tarty is made by the same company as the Tr1al freewheel. It costs 410 RMB vs 295 RMB for the Echo TR. I guess I could buy one and try it but, still, I cannot draw any reliable conclusions based on a single freewheel. I'm under the impression that on any trials bike the shittiest component is basically the freewheel. When you put one of these wobbly, scratchy-bearing freewheels next to a Hope brake which has been machined to super tight tolerances it is just plain rude.

Thanks for your input guys, I've just ordered a freewheel wrench so I can take a look at the guts and at least learn something even if I can't fix it. In case I need a new freewheel, are Echo TR ones still considered a good choice? I see quite a few riders from Tarty use them, what do you guys use?

This method is great! Way easier than the "slide a tube over the crank" method, and no crank damage. Gonna try this today, thanks for sharing.

My freewheel skipped two days ago while getting ready for a gap. The sound was not nice, and it felt like I had knackered it. I did some riding along while engaging the freewheel many times. I could hear strange noises when back-pedalling. Later the noise seemed to go away and I was able to ride back home and didn't seem to hear any more noises. The freewheel is an Echo TR 108 with moderate use (it's only gone through 2 chain changes). Do you guys think I should change it or should I test it some more? Is this perhaps something that can be repaired e.g. a loose spring/claw? Thanks

I used Maxxis Holy Rollers on my 24" build a couple of years ago, but I wasn't very impressed as they were not grippy enough and they were too thin so I was forced to run higher tyre pressure. Unfortunately there are not many options for 24" bikes, which is a pity.

In that order

Age is just a number. It's all about how good a job your body does at regenerating itself. You can be completely crippled at 40 or feel like a teenager at 50. I am 34 and a bit but people think I am 25 if I shave. I normally ride every day if the weather is good, and I feel great. Regular exercise also helps keep our bodies running smooth, so I'd say if you are the sporty kind no age is too late.

Old thread, I know, but timeless like a diamond. My rides used to be 2-3 hours long a time, but my body would ache the next day that I always had to leave several days in between rides to fully recover. Recently I've switched shorter daily rides, 45-60 minutes . I find this works better and because I don't overdo it I am always in the mood for trials, in fact if I don't ride one day it feels awkward. Another thing is what Joe_Elding above describes as "working-bike days". If you have more non-working-bike days than working-bike days something's wrong with your bike. If your bike is unreliable you will have no confidence and your riding will not improve. HS33s for me have undermined my confidence for many years (slipping, need for constant maintenance before, during and after every f*cking ride, seat stay flex, etc). Maggies have been the most inconvenient brake set up I've ever used. Since I switched to BB7 my confidence has gone through the roof because they are 100% reliable, and require hardly any servicing (I haven't touched mine for the past 6 months and they continue to work consistently). Finally, one other thing that made a big difference to the frequency of my rides, for me at least, was getting the right size grips. My fingers are very long and with ultra-thin grips I used to get very bad flappers, forcing me to stop riding for a week sometimes longer. Later on I decided to try different grips and I went through several models of varying shape, thickness, density and stiffness. Eventually I figured out that the culprit was that the grip diameter was too small for my hands; since I got thicker and slightly ergonomic grips I hardly get any calluses let alone flappers and my hands are always ready for the next ride. I've heard many riders talk shit about ergonomics grips but they have worked for me. As an added benefit, they are easy to remove with an allen key unlike thin foam grips, and don't spin around, again unlike foam grips. Once you've got a low-maintenance set-up that suits your anatomy you'll be riding every single day and enjoy every minute, because you'll be focusing on the FUN not the pain and the maintenance.

Sorry to point the massive elephant in the room but here's a little puzzle to drop it subtly: Helmets protect your head, Gloves protect your hands, Condoms protect your willy, Shinpads protect your ______. (hint: it's not willy)

I live in China now. Looks like the vid was posted by Li Shi Ming, probably cut together by Echo. Li has been riding for Echo for a very long time, he's the guy on the other video posted earler on this thread.

http://youtu.be/lSp6ssXvxCI

They chose not to disclose it to prevent it from afecting the comany in any negative way, which I can understand.

I don't remember always mentioning Deng, but I guess he is the one and only.

I was just checking Echo's website and this is what I saw on the home page. Rest in peace. His work's influence has been only second to Monty's, and in my opinion it's the most innovative of all. He deserves a big place in the trials hall of fame. Good to see they are still in business because I absolutely love their designs, and I wish them every success.

I never thought about the foam holding sweat in, but it makes a lot of sense. I found gloves also hold sweat and it was definitely a problem in the summer, so I did this: I was a little over-enthusiastic with the cutting... The only reason I wear gloves is to protect my knuckles and the "heel" of the hand (the part near the wrist) if I fall, but the middle part where the calluses are needs no protection. In fact, the glove fabric folding over around that area makes gripping the bars very awkward. With the cut-out this problem goes away, and I can easily dry any sweat quickly by rubbing my hands on my t-shirt. If you have an old pair of gloves you should try this. BTW the calluses in this pic are from riding every other day. They don't look very developed but I swear since I got the thicker grips my calluses have faded quite a bit.

I have a good job, no morgage, no children... I can effortlessly afford to buy Hopes, but I would still choose BB7s--less hassle IMO. BTW I don't used to run Echo TR rotors with BB7 on my previous build and it sucked. It was only when I got original Avid rotors that I realised how awesome BB7s are.

I am just tired of people thinking my calluses are not from riding bikes.

Second that. Either BB5 or BB7 are amazing. I run BB7s but I've tried BB5s before and they are basically the same in terms of power. The only difference is that the BB7 has a pad wear adjustment dial. The BB5 may be a bit lighter though, being a simpler brake.