No, I get where you are coming from, all I'm saying is that the HA of my frame, plus the BB height, don't lend itself to my style of riding. I see Phat Mikes vid, and I think, the bike suits him for his riding, not that is a good frame. 1100mm or other long frames allow a less vertical tap, so in theory, they do actually get up things better as you're not struggling against a loop out, and you can raise the bike from a more normal position. Also, I had a phase 1.2 and it was nice enough, just not well designed.