psycholist Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Since the braking is slightly spongy and more importantly I've already broken the crossover line on the back brake once, I've decided to get a brake booster. The bike is a current model Echo Control. Tarty has 2 and 4 bolt boosters, both should fit my frame and brakes, the question is is there a good reason to get one over the other - Is the 4 bolt significantly stiffer?Is adjusting the brakes on a 2 bolt booster easierWhat are people's experience with the Echo boosters?Presumably the extra fittings that come with the boosters will work fine with Echo CNC brake mounts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 As can be expected, a 4 bolt booster will offer more stiffness than a 2 bolt equivalent (as in, one of the same general style. Comparing a chunky 2 bolt to thin little 4 bolt isn't quite the same...) as it tends to hold the entire clamping system more rigidly. A lot of the flex in brake systems stems from the bolts themselves, so a 4 bolt choice will eliminate this on all 4 mounting points, whereas the 2 bolt is (surprise surprise) only holding the top section in place.Flex can also arise from the seatstays themselves flexing outward (brake pushes in on the rim, rim pushes out on the brake style affair), so it's often best to look into where the flex is coming from before deciding which method of support to choose.That said, the newer control frames have the inbuilt boosters so the stays are likely to be pretty stiff, meaning a 2 bolt booster will more than suffice for flex issues, and will still offer you all the crossover protection you should require The fittings that come with the booster should work fine with your current setup, but if you're calling Tartybikes to order, you may as well have a good old natter and check while you're at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Deadly. Pretty much what I thought. Next question:Any preference between this - £15 for the silver one: http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=581this in gold (£15): http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=579this in green (£15): http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=578Or should I go for an Echo control one for£25 ( http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=12 ) to match the rest of the bike - everything else on it is Echo...As for what colour to get there are a few photos of the bike here... http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/forum/index....howtopic=111205 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 As said afor, the 2 biolt should be fine on that frame, and also I've had the Echo black and silver one in 2 bolt and 4, and the 4 bolt one was really hard to set up right compared to the 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 It's mostly that I don't want black bits on my frame, and all the 2 bolt boosters seem to be black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 It's mostly that I don't want black bits on my frame, and all the 2 bolt boosters seem to be black.Once the 4 bolts are set up they are stiffer in my experience, but it's just setting them up. It is a lot easy with new plastic washer thingies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duck Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 2 bolt boosters do the job fine, I'm using one now on my ozonys. 4-bolt ones do the job ever so slightly better, but its not really noticeable imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Since fitting a 4 bolt requires removing all the brake mount bolts at the same time it's going to be a pain alright... One of these in Gold might do the job too: http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=2238 - no fiddle space in the mounting bolts though - hopefully the frame spacing on my frame is 100mm - I'll measure when I get home and find out...Otherwise I'll have to go for the Echo team booster (Designed for Mod bikes, but should fit a 26" frame, just leaves more clearance over the tyre): http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=165 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Ive got a control booster on my hifi and its pretty stiff, got an rb lever though which excerts more mechanical advantage than the maggie. Without the booster the stays flex quite a lot.Fitting the 4bolt isnt hard at all, just loosely put it together one screw and spacer tube at a time, as long as you dont tighten any of the screws down before you have all 4 spacer tubes in its fine. Fitting the 4bolt stopped me kicking my crossovers off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Green, gold or silver? That's the big question ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Silver is the big answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Pretty much what I was thinking... Aesthetically I think this wins, purely because it matches the look of the rest of the bike: http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Yeah. I had one of those boosters, though only used it for a short while as it wasn't wholly needed (frame was stiff enough beforehand)Seemed to do the job more than well enough, and looks pretty pimp. If I still had it I'd happily send it off to you, but alas, it left me several moons ago.Keep an eye out in the Fs section, or post up in Wtd, as there are a few going spare out there if you fancy saving a few pennies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cai Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Any preference between this - £15 for the silver one: http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=581this in gold (£15): http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=579this in green (£15): http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=578Or should I go for an Echo control one for£25 ( http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=12 ) to match the rest of the bike - everything else on it is Echo...As for what colour to get there are a few photos of the bike here... http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/forum/index....howtopic=111205I have a C'zar 4bolt booster on my Koxx Levelboss (26") and theres no noticeable flex, like I can't feel any flex (but theres always going to be a little bit there)Also I thimk black would look best on your bike - call me boring but your bike has to many colours, and I don't think a silver booster will look to nice either.Also the Tensile 4bolt boosters are awsome, just a little on the heavy side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sixstreet Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Since the braking is slightly spongy and more importantly I've already broken the crossover line on the back brake once, I've decided to get a brake booster. The bike is a current model Echo Control. Tarty has 2 and 4 bolt boosters, both should fit my frame and brakes, the question is is there a good reason to get one over the other - Is the 4 bolt significantly stiffer?Is adjusting the brakes on a 2 bolt booster easierWhat are people's experience with the Echo boosters?Presumably the extra fittings that come with the boosters will work fine with Echo CNC brake mounts?If this frame has a built in booster I personally dont think you need a bolt on one and should maybe look at your brake set-up to eliminate the sponginess. I made a crossover protector which looks like a booster but is much much slimmer. Can send pics if you want to some ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 If this frame has a built in booster I personally dont think you need a bolt on one and should maybe look at your brake set-up to eliminate the sponginess. I made a crossover protector which looks like a booster but is much much slimmer. Can send pics if you want to some ideas.My hifi has a built in booster but it still flexes loads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 (edited) My bike has green, silver and gold. Silver probably works best as the booster should look more like part of the frame. Using black would add another colour, and my XC bikes use a lot of it because it doesn't show the dirt too badly - since the trials bike will never see mud it's the only bike I have that's worth buying shiny stuff for ... Since I'm thankfully in the position of being able to afford new parts at shop prices, I'm happy to let free/cheap stuff go to people who barely have the cash to keep their bike going in the first place - they'll hopefully appreciate it more and it'll keep more riders in the sport . I sold my last trials bike (Echo pure '04/'05 ish, Pashley forks, maguras, XTR rear hub, BMF rim, ISIS Middleburns with trials bashguard etc.) for €150 just because the guy who was looking for it showed an interest in learning trials but didn't have the cash to buy a new bike himself - there were 2 or 3 other people who offered me more to buy the bike, but I fixed the price and did it in order of who'd got back to me first.I read in a post somewhere that one way of reducing arm pump is to fit brake boosters so that when you're holding the brakes on the levers stay at a fixed point rather than moving in and out a little as you hop around - work is force by distance, so flexing the brake levers in and out as you hold the brakes on while you hop will tire you quicker than applying a constant force to an immobile lever (Which still takes energy as your muscles use energy to maintain a given force but it should require less energy). Even a small reduction in brake flex will help in this regard - I've no fault to find with the power or locking of the brakes. Edited March 28, 2008 by psycholist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Dave (2sixstreet) rides on of the controls, so I guess he's probably taking from experience. With a pretty solid engineering background too, I usually take what he says as read, but there is always a slight bit of give with things like this, so it's down to the individual rider/bike setup to determine what's needed where Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 The brake isn't particularly spongy. I just reckon that since I need something to protect the crossover line and there's a possibility of reducing arm pump by further stiffening the brake I may benefit doubly from this change. Also I need to spend more time riding my bike than making replacement bits for it. I made bake booster for evo mount Maguras from 5mm plate steel back in the day and they were awesome, but that was when I had a lot more time than money ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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