Should Smacking Be Illegal?

[Bol Maaaaaaing]

In NZ, there is going to be a vote to make it illegal to smack kids as a punishment (even small ones to teach them).

I think its a load of rubbish, What do you guys reckon?

[Papa Manual]

It is rubbish. There's a big difference between smacking and child abuse. If you see a small child licking a plug socket you give them a smack rather than trying to explain rationally that plug socket = bzzzap as they won't understand. From then on they'll associate said plug socket with negative stimuli and be more wary of it. I think as children get older and more understanding it becomes a little less acceptable, however where do you draw the line when infants mature and advance their communicative skills at different rates?

The same debate was bouncing around the headlines a few years ago in Britain and it was decided that it was acceptable as long as it didn't leave any visible damage. This is currently under scrutiny again I think.

[JT!]

Smacking children does work, but i feel there's better ways to punish a child without physically harming them. I'm not sure where i stand on it being illegal though.

[Fixed Pants™]

Well it's like everything.

Speeding, should be, and is illegal, but is 5mph over the limit really gonna give you jip?

Edited July 30, 2009 by Fixed Pants™

[Papa Manual]

Well it's like everything.

Speeding, should be, and is illegal, but is 5mph over the limit really gonna give you jip?

I see what you're saying however I think that parents that smack their kids regularly and for the slightest little thing are 1) stupid as it'll have less of an affect when you're really trying stop your child from doing something as they'll see it as a regular event, and 2) child abusers, although it's near impossible to draw the line legally.

[Bol Maaaaaaing]

It is rubbish. There's a big difference between smacking and child abuse. If you see a small child licking a plug socket you give them a smack rather than trying to explain rationally that plug socket = bzzzap as they won't understand. From then on they'll associate said plug socket with negative stimuli and be more wary of it. I think as children get older and more understanding it becomes a little less acceptable, however where do you draw the line when infants mature and advance their communicative skills at different rates?

The same debate was bouncing around the headlines a few years ago in Britain and it was decided that it was acceptable as long as it didn't leave any visible damage. This is currently under scrutiny again I think.

Haha, thats good.

There was some people in NZ last year who abused a 2 year old and it ended up dying. Burning its feet and then putting it in cold water so it will never heal properly, using it as a wrestling toy, putting it in a tumble drier and hanging it on the clothes line (This is what they did) is a lot worse than hitting it on the bum because it threw a tantrum. The NZ government is crap, dont ever come here.

Smacking children does work, but i feel there's better ways to punish a child without physically harming them. I'm not sure where i stand on it being illegal though.

If you dont do it (in my opinion) the kid will grow up without a fear of being punished for doing something wrong, and they will grow up without respect and without knowing what is right or wrong, Which is one of the problems in NZ/the world.

Well it's like everything.

Speeding, should be, and is illegal, but is 5mph over the limit really gonna give you jip?

If they allow 5mph of the limit to be OK, then after a while people will say 'another 5mph cant be bad' and it will gradually get worse and worse until it gets real out of hand and become a big problem.

I dont see whats so hard about keeping the speed limit personally.

[Fixed Pants™]

Which is why people constantly do 90+ on the motorways when the limit is 70...

It's not all bad.

[Bol Maaaaaaing]

Which is why people constantly do 90+ on the motorways when the limit is 70...

It's not all bad.

And what happens when the limit is raised to 90 and people start doing 110? and then the limit is raised to 110 and people do 130 etc?

It will gradually get worse and worse.

[anzo]

As previously said, where do you draw the line with a 'slap on the arse' and abuse?

I got plenty of slaps when I was little - which I deserved and I certainly didn't do it again, and if I did, I made sure I never got caught.

I think thats whats missing in society now, parents actually giving a shit about their kids and knowing that they know when they've done wrong.

Thanks to Soft Mums Petitions we have to picture children as little angels who never do anything wrong, but you can't hit them because then you're a terrible mother and deserve to die.

This means that lots of kids grow up knowing that the worst punishment they're going to get was a shouting at. When I was little I was scared of my parents, not in the respect of I was terrified of them, but I knew that if I got caught doing something I shouldn't be, then my God I'd know about it.

As said, I was slapped - I turned out fine...I think?

[Tom_]

If they allow 5mph of the limit to be OK, then after a while people will say 'another 5mph cant be bad' and it will gradually get worse and worse until it gets real out of hand and become a big problem.

I dont see whats so hard about keeping the speed limit personally.

Your only 16, which as far as i know means you cant drive. It is difficult, ask anyone, I dont think anyone out there has never sped in their car.

And no, because going 5mph, you normally still get raped by cameras etc. cops themselves may let you off, but they wont if your doing say 10mph over, its not slowly increasing, its getting worse and worse. I dont disagree with speed limits, in built up areas etc, but some limits are rediculous, and in certain areas IMO it is acceptable to break the speed limit, providing you stay at a speed where you are comfortable and dont push it too much.

Use speed where safe etc.

[Bol Maaaaaaing]

As previously said, where do you draw the line with a 'slap on the arse' and abuse?

I got plenty of slaps when I was little - which I deserved and I certainly didn't do it again, and if I did, I made sure I never got caught.

I think thats whats missing in society now, parents actually giving a shit about their kids and knowing that they know when they've done wrong.

Thanks to Soft Mums Petitions we have to picture children as little angels who never do anything wrong, but you can't hit them because then you're a terrible mother and deserve to die.

This means that lots of kids grow up knowing that the worst punishment they're going to get was a shouting at. When I was little I was scared of my parents, not in the respect of I was terrified of them, but I knew that if I got caught doing something I shouldn't be, then my God I'd know about it.

As said, I was slapped - I turned out fine...I think?

Damn straight!

Its also partly the Green Party tying to control the way we live and do things. Its as though they want to make NZ a Communist country.

They were trying to make it compulsory to have a certain sized shower head so you dont waste water!

[Papa Manual]

I think you can drive at 15 in NZ, but irrespective of this, I don't think that pushing the boundaries of a speed limited is the best parallel to smacking a child anyway to be honest....

[JT!]

If you dont do it (in my opinion) the kid will grow up without a fear of being punished for doing something wrong, and they will grow up without respect and without knowing what is right or wrong, Which is one of the problems in NZ/the world.

That's bull, there's a good number of kids out there who were never smacked when they were a kid, and they know if they do wrong they get punished and the difference between right and wrong.

Usually people who smack kids do it because they don't know how to discipline a child correctly, hitting and yelling 'don't do that' is something that would work with dogs, but kids need to be taught why they can't do that. If a kid runs out into the road, and the parent smacks the kid, what's the kid learnt? Don't do that again. Where as if a kid runs out in the middle of the street and gets shouted at initially, then the parents explain why you can't do that. Which'll have more effect?

[anzo]

Well it's like everything.

Speeding, should be, and is illegal, but is 5mph over the limit really gonna give you jip?

What the f**k has that got to do with slapping kids?

[Bol Maaaaaaing]

Your only 16, which as far as i know means you cant drive. It is difficult, ask anyone, I dont think anyone out there has never sped in their car.

And no, because going 5mph, you normally still get raped by cameras etc. cops themselves may let you off, but they wont if your doing say 10mph over, its not slowly increasing, its getting worse and worse. I dont disagree with speed limits, in built up areas etc, but some limits are rediculous, and in certain areas IMO it is acceptable to break the speed limit, providing you stay at a speed where you are comfortable and dont push it too much.

Use speed where safe etc.

In NZ the driving age is 15.

Yeah in certain places it can be safe, but its still against the law and is put there for safety of others.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

From what I've heard, NZ is really bad for domestic violence so anything that gives the police power to protect kids at risk should be a good thing, provided it's used sensibly. But overall, smacking kids as a last resort when they've been properly bad should not be illegal. Gotta teach the little shits somehow...

[Bol Maaaaaaing]

That's bull, there's a good number of kids out there who were never smacked when they were a kid, and they know if they do wrong they get punished and the difference between right and wrong.

Usually people who smack kids do it because they don't know how to discipline a child correctly, hitting and yelling 'don't do that' is something that would work with dogs, but kids need to be taught why they can't do that. If a kid runs out into the road, and the parent smacks the kid, what's the kid learnt? Don't do that again. Where as if a kid runs out in the middle of the street and gets shouted at initially, then the parents explain why you can't do that. Which'll have more effect?

Well what would make you learn quicker about not doing something?

Getting an earful, or getting a whack? Im not saying that not smacking is silly, but I do however think that it is more effective.

E.g. If you get smart to someone and they 1) Yell at you to stop or 2) Hit you in the face. What is more likely to make you not do it again?

From what I've heard, NZ is really bad for domestic violence so anything that gives the police power to protect kids at risk should be a good thing, provided it's used sensibly. But overall, smacking kids as a last resort when they've been properly bad should not be illegal. Gotta teach the little shits somehow...

Yeah, there is quite a bit of domestic violence here, and like I said, dont come here XD

I think that you should deal to the problem first time and get it sorted rather than wait till the last resort to do something about it. You would have saved a fair bit of time in doing so.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Bol Maaaaaaing

[Papa Manual]

When a kid is old enough to understand the reasons why a certain action is dangerous or wrong to the degree where they won't do it again, or at least consider their actions before acting, smacking is abuse. This is down to a judgement call though really, by the parents. If the parents are stupid then it's far easier to carry on smacking.

[Fixed Pants™]

What the f**k has that got to do with slapping kids?

Laws.

Like, it shouldn't be illegal to smack kids, but it should be illegal to punch them or whatever. You know what i mean, there's limits to laws and sometimes you can go slightly past them without doing any harm.

[JT!]

Well what would make you learn quicker about not doing something?

Getting an earful, or getting a whack? Im not saying that not smacking is silly, but I do however think that it is more effective.

E.g. If you get smart to someone and they 1) Yell at you to stop or 2) Hit you in the face. What is more likely to make you not do it again?

Well hitting a child in the face IS child abuse. I know you were referring away from children but just wanted to make that clear.

It's just where you draw the line, you could tie your child up and leave them in a cupboard over night. That'll be more effective that a smack, but we don't do that.

I guess there's going to be a vote so the whole of NZ can decide where that line is.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

you could tie your child up and leave them in a cupboard over night. That'll be more effective that a smack, but we don't do that.

Maybe we should start.

[anzo]

Laws.

Like, it shouldn't be illegal to smack kids, but it should be illegal to punch them or whatever. You know what i mean, there's limits to laws and sometimes you can go slightly past them without doing any harm.

I see where you're coming from, but again, how you draw the line or even begin to enforce such a thing, even with a slap on the arse, how do you charge someone for that?

Yes, speeding we do push our limits...but when parents push the 'limits' with kids they can end up killing them. Limits exisit and limits get pushed, pushed so much that it becomes the norm, and then it gets pushed more and more from there.

Its a judgement call for the parents as Jon said. Any good parent will know how to bring a kid up but any parent smacking their kids 'within the limits of the law' shouldn't be a parent at all.

Edit: Worded the last bit badly, what I'm saying is there shouldn't be a law to tell parents when enough is enough, that should be a natural decision.

Edited July 30, 2009 by anzo

[Muel]

Smacking doesn't work if you ask me, my Mum used to smack me for every tiny little thing, and up until I was about 14...

All smacking does is remove any respect that the child ever had for the parent, it's bollocks.

I do believe that it should be there as a last resort, when you're smacked as much as I was then you realise, actually it doesn't hurt and it's worth it for anything you want to do. It should be something only dished out by the father (not being sexist, just believe it work better coming from an "overlord" type figure"), and only when something really bad has happened.

As it happened it f**ked up my childhood because I was incredibly angry and depressed all the time until I was about 15 and then I just hated her and hardly spoke to her. My Dad never smacked me, he just spoke to me like a human being and made me see that what I'd done was wrong, and 9 times out of 10 I apologised to my Mum without being asked.

[Simpson]

I'll step up onto Anzo's side and without being overly deep as a kid my parents wern't afraid to give me a smack if I was in the wrong and I totally support it, I think in the most part it wasn't the pain that ever made me cry but the sheer embarasment of it happening. My parents were very good parents and as a kid I always pushed the limits, and the smack was the last resort to remind me of my place. I was only ever really smacked for lying (because my mum hated it) and really bad stuff.

However I must admit (i really don't know how to say it because its not that im asking for sympathy of attention or anything like that) but I can think of a 1 or 2 occassions where maybe it wasn't innocent smacking but domestic abuse. But IMO that was fine because I really needed that to keep me on the straight and narrow.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Simpson

[Captain Scarlet]

Its down to how the smack is delivered, just warnings and things leading up to the smack, as that supernanny bitch does with the naughty step.

Just randomly grabbing your child and smacking them is no good, it needs to be justified and warnings given to the child. My dad used to give me the slipper when I got in serious trouble when younger, and gave me good warning before I got into trouble, he didn't abuse the punishment so it worked perfectly.