Watson© Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 my grind wasnt eveh harsh was about a month old... i dont drag brake at all th one day they woore down most on was the first proper day of riding with a little group ask any of them i did nopt drag my brake at all just used it when nedded it and they weere getting smaller and smaller every minute :lol: ← Hmmmmm ok... I'll take your word on it (Y) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pork Pie Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Least it's not just Rim Jams >_< Damn it, they literally just fell apart as I took my brake apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisRider Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Damn it, they literally just fell apart as I took my brake apart. ← that a plaz or a heatsink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pork Pie Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Sinks >_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatsink Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Major apologies for this problem, and as always I will pull out the stops to remedy it (N) Just PMed Dave to arrange free replacement with some of the new moulded pads I'll be receiving at the beginning of next week. >_< You can see in the photo that some gunk has penetrated through the rear clip and compromised the bond. The challenge with hand cut pads is to get a really snug fit - naturally they're not going to be as dimensionally accurate as moulded pads. This sort of failure is very rare, but will be completely remedied with my moulded pads that mimic the form of the backing completely, with residual compression in the critical areas to ensure the bond strength is optimised. Aside from the benefits of the very accurate moulded form, the new pads will benefit from tighter production tolerances than every before. My new supplier for the moulded pads has state of the art processing equipment which means I can hit the exact spec I've come to realise is optimum. I can also now make pads that chemically "Stand on the shoulders of giants" if you catch my drift (Y) There are a couple of other chaps too who have experienced some adherence issues recently with my pads, and they will also be receiving free moulded pads. So they'll end up being the lucky recipients of these very exclusive and long awaited pads before they're commercially available! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PythonRider Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 (edited) Grrr same happened with my heatsinks. Sorry about to dodgy quality. EDIT: Sizing down photos Tom Edited April 11, 2005 by PythonRider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatsink Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Your brand new replacements with moulded pads & brand new backings will be in the post as soon as I receive them ;) Should be this week and I'll PM updates to you and the other riders who unfortunately discovered the same problem as soon as I can be sure of send out dates. Thanks for your patience :D Steve Grrr same happened with my heatsinks. Sorry about to dodgy quality. EDIT: Sizing down photos Tom ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Peters Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 My mate James' Red Rim Jams also ripped off the backing, but my blues are still fine fingers crossed. It might be because the red pads are much softer than the blues, which allows them to deform too much during braking and therefore helps them to be pulled off... So maybe the reds although offering good braking for a while are just too soft? The blues being harder would not deform as much and therefore not be as prone to the same problem? just a thought ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 My guess, through my experience of making pads, is that the softness of the material has played a big effect in them falling apart. Glue is very strong in tension, in shear, but poor in peel (relatively). With a very soft pad (as the red RimJams are), the surface tends to try and 'slide' forwards/backwards when you brake, which in turn tries to peel the material from the backing. I think you can see the effects of this in the first picture, on the left hand corner, where its standing away from the backing after peeling. The harder pads (green being the hardest) do not suffer from this anywhere near as much (although, of course, all materials will do it a small amount). ← It might be because the red pads are much softer than the blues, which allows them to deform too much during braking and therefore helps them to be pulled off... So maybe the reds although offering good braking for a while are just too soft? The blues being harder would not deform as much and therefore not be as prone to the same problem? ← Yup yup ;) And now theres Greens, which are harder than the reds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 and harder than blues ;) mine are holding well :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartridge Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 and harder than blues :D ← Oops, thats what i meant to say :D But im a retard so ;)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatsink Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 My mate James' Red Rim Jams also ripped off the backing, but my blues are still fine fingers crossed. It might be because the red pads are much softer than the blues, which allows them to deform too much during braking and therefore helps them to be pulled off... So maybe the reds although offering good braking for a while are just too soft? The blues being harder would not deform as much and therefore not be as prone to the same problem? just a thought ;) ← You're absolutely right about the issues with adherence that can occur with softer compounds. Adam explained it in more detail earlier about glues being strong in shear but not in tear. Imagine trying to remove an address label stuck onto your bike frame by pushing your hand on it along the frame - you won't have any joy making it move! On the other hand, if you peel up a corner and keep going peeling it off, it'll be easy to remove. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Peters Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Yeah it made sense that its easier to effectively peel them off their backing than pull them straight off . i might just weld my rim to the frame and be done with it lol ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 I agree with the talk about the red pads ripping off, as they are the ones we are having trouble with. But we never had trouble before. We started to have trouble with pads falling off just before the bike show. I think that the following factors could also have affected the pads and is making them rip off. 1. We made a rig, like a press so that we could do a long line of pads simutaniously. I dont think we were leaving them in the rig long enough for the glue to cure under pressure. 2. We were sealing the pads up in bags pretty soon after there were glued, meaing the air was not getting to glue to cure it. 3. We were using a thicker glue, which was not spreading under bad betwwen backing. All these problems have be solved, and we are now testing pads, to see if it has cured the problem. Plans for the next few weeks is, we have a new shape pad on the way, which is to improve pad wear rate, and also a deeper reccess. I will keep you posted on updates. ;) Thanks, Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisa Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Hey Chris, sounds like you have been doing your research. What kind of results have testing produced in the past for the red pads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Yes, we have been doing a lot of reaserch latley, as we are rapidly growing we had to improve our methods of production to keep up with the demand, which has lead to these problems. The red pads were our first , and i have only ever known 1 pad to fall off, until we introduce the glueing rig before the bikeshow. So now basically we are trying to go back to the same method as we used to have. If we carry on having trouble with the reds, we will have to stop the prodcution of reds, as i do not want to be selling pads which could fail, and i also do not want to see people getting hurt from it! And anyway, blues and green is by far the most popular. The red pads have an aquired feel on the lever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_urban Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 i snaped the backs clean in half on my batch one reds but i also ripped the pad out of my heatsinks but im now running two pairs of blues in my bikes no probs ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne-king Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Well my Green pads are still going strong... no problems... although I did speak to Chris about the wear rate as mines are being used with a harsh grind and are going down pretty fast... so Chris said he will make some new pads with a harder material and making the pads wider to reduce wearage :D ;) Also... the brake locks like a bitch... love them :D Watson ← yeh, mine are wearing down mega quick as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 I will try and get some pics up later of what the new pad will look like. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watson© Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 I will try and get some pics up later of what the new pad will look like. ;) ← Sweet :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly C Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 I've noticed a big problem with my Blue RimJams and I've shown the riders I rode with the problem too. Basically I set the pads up perfectly level with the rim, I have my TPA fairly wound out so theres no problems there, I press the brake down and it hits the rim flat as it should. The problem is when I hold the brake and physically pull the wheel you can see the soft blue material (still sticking to the Rim) move with the wheel this inturn makes the pads wear away at the back to a circular style angle. Now I run a non-ground rim with tar on it, but for me this is a big problem. At the start of the ride the was wearing at the back but near the end there was a whole bit of pad that seemed to be missing?? I've only really had 2 small 1 hour rides and a sunday ride on them so far :D I may have to switch them over for greens because there wearing in such a way. I'll be on MSN if you want to talk about it Chris ;) Olly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Vox Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 (edited) Im having the same problem as olly c. Put my red pads on last wed. absolutly brilliant, no tar smooth rim, couldn't say a bad thing about them. but they got worse and worse through the next two days. i cleaned my rim on friday and they were still bad. took them off on saturday to change back to my zoo's and its ripped chunks out of the pad in places, its like it had some air in and its ripped pieces clean off. i never used tar while they were on (cuz couldn't find any) or had a grind. Im sorry but in the three days i rode them the shouldn't have just dissintigrated in places. I rekon they will come off the backings soon specially as they are falling to pieces, i wish they didnt though because they were sooooooo nice!! ive tried taking some photos of them but it aint working cuz my camera is rubbish. If you wana speak to me bout them then add me to msn (killbobuk@yahoo.co.uk) or pm me! cheers andy ps. sorry bout the essay! lol ;) Edited April 11, 2005 by killbobuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisa Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Sounds like a bad compoubd really, I suppose the best thing to do for the sake of the rim jam name would be to stop the reds but then you will have people who have had no problem with thiers. It could be the surrounding area you ride in, where your bike is stored. Adhesives for anything, even carpet get dramatically by temerature. Hence why defects not released in testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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