Right, Geo Problem

[Fishy]

Hey all,

Just having a 'discussion' with my dad about how geo makes a difference, even at my level,

Would I be right in saying that a new bike, say this years model of a monty, be much better than an 8 year old monty, same model...?

I know for a fact that most people will agree with me, because it's just commen sense.

Bearing in mind that he has rode motorbike trials since he was about 14, and is now erm..... in this early 40s, you would expect him to understand geometery. (sp?)

If you could just post your views on my statement to see who's right, as it is seriously pissing me off.

Cheers

jOe....

Edited April 26, 2006 by Joe Rothwell

[Walleee]

Does he ride on a 40 yr old bike or something newer? If it's something newer then all you have to do is explain that it's the same principle, however buying an 06 monty won't make you a better rider than you would be on a '99 monty, it just might make learning easier/more specific for certain aspects of trials.

[Fishy]

The bike he rides he built himself, so i can't really comapre it to like a new bike, but the frames early 90's.

Thats basically what i was trying to explain to him.

[Walleee]

Surley as a rider himself he understand how differant design can affect the ride of a bike? If he doesnt, time to start saving up for yourself like I had to do, my parents wern't too keen on the idea of buying me a silly seatless bike when I was younger, so if that's what your trying for I can see their point of view, but still, I dont know how he can deny that geometry affects the ride.

[Ash-Kennard]

the newer geometry is for the new style of riding, no one uses a bash, people sidehop more etc.

so the newer geometry will make a difference, but it all depends on how you are wanting to ride.

[poopipe]

a new monty would have 8 years worth of improvements over the 8 year old monty -wouldnt it ?

Once you've got the big geometry right, it's right forever - which is probably where your dad's coming from.

The thing is, there's lots of other stuff that affect how a pushbike rides. Improvements in material and design can make a bike weigh less , get stronger, get stiffer, allow for funny shaped tubes that you dont hit your ankle on - all sorts. I never rode a moto-trials bike but all that suspension and the engine are going to hide a lot of that stuff from the rider

[Fishy]

Cheers for the replys,

The reason for this topis is, that I inherited some money, and it's surposed to be for a new bike, and my dad was basically saying i am an idiot for getting a new one, when mine is good enough.

But i was saying how i prefered other bikes, to mine, like the feel on back wheel etc...

[Walleee]

Once you've got the big geometry right, it's right forever - which is probably where your dad's coming from.

But there is no right geometry.

if it's the 221pr your thinking of, just get one, £150 couldn't be that much of a dent in your 'inheritance'

[poopipe]

But there is no right geometry.

thats mostly true, there's no single right geometry - there are lots of right geometries.

You have to assume that a monty is shaped like monty because somebody who tested lots of different geometries considered it the right geometry.

[Greetings]

Well, the Montys have changed a lot but I wouldn't say they're that different. Certainly the old design was much shorter, the bars were higher and bb was lower. That would probably make learning new techniques much easier.

The new Montys are exceptional however I found mine extremely difficult to ride at first, had muscle pains all over my body.

IMO Monty is still addressing their bikes to the same group of riders as say 8-10 years ago. The only difference is that back in the 90's we didn't have much choice of what to ride. Therefore changing to a new Monty won't help too much at first. You will however benefit from this in the future.

If you really want a new frame, I'd complain about the savage riding position (which is due to the old Montys being very short). Maybe your health will be of greater concern to your dad than the fact that you just want a new frame for no apparent reason (from his point of view of course).

[Waynio]

new geometry IS new technology if your dad is riding pre 90 or 90's bikes, dont forget were in 2006 now, get him on a year old or a new montesa or honda what ever he wishes to ride, he will become dougie lampkin if hes any good on an old bike the new stuff will blow him away (if motorcycle trials is anything like push bike trials) technology in everything changes look @ the four strokes and stuff nower days, totally new generation etc etc.

Geometry IS where biketrials is @.

iv just got my new yaabaa Bow and its got 30mm + B/B and it feels like a VRacing.but its in a "small" version for me. 1075 wheelbase, makes some/most things very very easy, but keeps the b/b in a position that is not too high and not low like normal trials frames.iv had a go on +40 and then +55 and when you get to +55 its stupid its totally out and wrong, it doesnt make the bike feel like it should (IMO)

it will be similar with motorbikes though dude. new stuff will have better technology and geometry companies go forwards and not backwards. unless there doing a bad job

Waynio............................

[Fishy]

I was just using Monty as an example, at the moment I have a Koxx lb 1065 '04, and I got it because to be honest it was a lot better than my monty 230. (and it was cheap)

But now that i have some money, I was thinking in investing in a new bike, 24" maybe or something.

My dad thinks that riding an older bike will bring back his youth, if that sort of makes sense, i ride a custom made aprilia, which is about 23 years old (the frame) and i love it. But if i had the choice of a new bike, i would. They are much more powerful and stronger.

I guess I also put up this topic to see if i am making the right decision getting a new bike.

[Jez]

Everything in this world is horses for courses. Some frames are better at some things than others are - regardless of age. It's also down to the rider's preference. Plenty of people will have said 'I preferred last year's frame' or something along those lines, but by the same token just as many people (possibly more) will have said that this year's is better - it just depends on a) your body size/shape what style of riding you do and c) what seems most comfortable to you as to which year's frame is better.

I prefer 'older' style geometry frames (none of this long + BB rise stuff) just because that's what I spent years riding on and that's what I'm most comfortable with. Other people have started on long, high BB frames and can't stand the older style stuff.

Just find what's best for you and go for it. Don't buy this year's frame just because it's newer - find out which you prefer first.

I think I may have just repeated a lot of what people said...but sod it.

[adamtrials]

Get a zoot joe

Do it...

I wouldnt say newer frames were any better, just different for different styles.

like jez mentions above, i got into trials 7 years ago, then stopped so im still used to the old style.