Marino Questions

[Brettoll]

Hi there,

I am thinking of ordering a custom made frame from Marino one I have got shot of most of my TMS Evo 3 but I have a couple of questions.

Obviously they can put together a design to your bespoke requirements, but:

• Do you think they would make custom forks (if you asked nicely)?
  
• With regards to colours, are you able to pick and choose?
  
• Can you have any custom decals put on there?
  
• How much is postage?
  
• Do you need to arrange all of the import tax as it is coming from Peru?
  
• Average postage waits?
  

Any assistance you can all offer would be greatly welcome.

Thanks,

Brett

Edited November 12, 2010 by Brettoll

[Luke Dunstan]

Hi there,

I am thinking of ordering a custom made frame from Marino one I have got shot of most of my TMS Evo 3 but I have a couple of questions.

Obviously they can put together a design to your bespoke requirements, but:

• Do you think they would make custom forks (if you asked nicely)?
  
• With regards to colours, are you able to pick and choose?
  
• Can you have any custom decals put on there?
  
• How much is postage?
  
• Do you need to arrange all of the import tax as it is coming from Peru?
  
• Average postage waits?
  

Any assistance you can all offer would be greatly welcome.

Thanks,

Brett

Also be interesting to know how much (roughly) the cost is f the actual frame.

They do custom decals, but I think it's obviously only font.

And from what I've seen he does have a lot of flexibility on colour.

[eskimo]

You need to answer this question first. Do you really need a custom?

Not saying you don't or whatever, just trying to have you put things in perspective.

If you have money, look into Triton also.

[Brettoll]

Also be interesting to know how much (roughly) the cost is f the actual frame.

They do custom decals, but I think it's obviously only font.

And from what I've seen he does have a lot of flexibility on colour.

Yeah that is a good point too.

Just looking at XE currency converter $250 currently stands at £155, but there must be other charges that are incurred like postage and tax.

I just want to check a few points before I send in a design for a 26inch street beast!

You need to answer this question first. Do you really need a custom?

Not saying you don't or whatever, just trying to have you put things in perspective.

If you have money, look into Triton also.

Its not that fact of need, I just want one.

I could just buy a Hex frame if I wanted something "off the shelf".

But its that taking all the best bits of all the bikes ive had and making something that is spot on for me, in the colours I want straight away that appeals.

[eskimo]

That's cool. But i wouldn't personally use Marino to get 'all the best bits', because to be fair, it's pretty budget stuff. Not saying he can't build and people aren't happy with their bikes etc.

Have you also looked into Leeson? Despite what has been said, i know a guy who got one recently without issues. Another guy who got one before, got dicked around something ridiculous. Enough to make me not even mention it. But that was previous.

[GINGER_WARRIOR]

you need to make sure you get the right geo, LEON's just got his frame and he loves it, its the best thing his rode in a long while, its a really nice colour too transparent red.

[Brettoll]

He does seem to be getting better and better, and price comparitve to a leeson is pretty much half. But obviously with Clive you get that good old British quality and service, as well as the experience from all the frames that they have built.

Equally, I would be interested to find out what people think of Marino's work now and whether anyones had a real issue with theirs..

Most importantly, I haven't definately decided im going with Marino. Hence the reason for this thread, finding out a little more info about the frames etc so I can make an educated decision rather than steaming in and picking the first custom frame maker.

you need to make sure you get the right geo, LEON's just got his frame and he loves it, its the best thing his rode in a long while, its a really nice colour too transparent red.

Yeah I saw Leon's! Looks lovely and the kind of thing I am looking for (an old school street trials bike with some geo tweeks to suit).

That is a nice colour, but im thinking of a matte black and dark pink decals (much to the amusement of some of my other mates who think im gay as it is for riding trials)

Edited November 12, 2010 by Brettoll

[LEON]

Do it!

For a start, it's only budget because of the price, and I'd say affordable is a better word, the quality/finish of his latest 4130 cro mo frames is better than alot of production stuff I've seen, and way above the older mild steel frames, it's not like he's holding the frame in 1 hand and the welder in the other, he has proper jigs etc and got every single measurement of mine spot on, and don't go thinking 4130 cro mo frames are all heavy, these aren't dmr's, mine weighs 4.9 lbs which is excellent considering it is steel and also top quality stuff, and the best thing is that this weight is just a safe weight he gave me to test, and if all holds up well to abuse then he is gonna make me an even lighter one, and use that as a guideline of how light is too light for the public as he's only just started using the 4130.

I did ask about forks but he said currently he doesn't have the tubes to make them, but he does make forks, I was sent a pair months ago, they were the older mild steel & were no heavier than a pair of pashleys.

I think stickers just come in the 1 font but I get my own done anyway.

Just make sure you do your homework & know exactly what you want, to the nearest mm possible, misjudging your fork rake/length by 5mm can have drastic effects on the frame.

Edited November 13, 2010 by LEON

[GINGER_WARRIOR]

Yeah

[Brettoll]

Do it!

For a start, it's only budget because of the price, and I'd say affordable is a better word, the quality/finish of his latest 4130 cro mo frames is better than alot of production stuff I've seen, and way above the older mild steel frames, it's not like he's holding the frame in 1 hand and the welder in the other, he has proper jigs etc and got every single measurement of mine spot on, and don't go thinking 4130 cro mo frames are all heavy, these aren't dmr's, mine weighs 4.9 lbs which is excellent considering it is steel and also top quality stuff, and the best thing is that this weight is just a safe weight he gave me to test, and if all holds up well to abuse then he is gonna make me an even lighter one, and use that as a guideline of how light is too light for the public as he's only just started using the 4130.

I did ask about forks but he said currently he doesn't have the tubes to make them, but he does make forks, I was sent a pair months ago, they were the older mild steel & were no heavier than a pair of pashleys.

I think stickers just come in the 1 font but I get my own done anyway.

Just make sure you do your homework & know exactly what you want, to the nearest mm possible, misjudging your fork rake/length by 5mm can have drastic effects on the frame.

Thanks for that dude, how much was yours in total inclusive of shipping etc.

Also where do you get your stickers made?

[LEON]

I didn't pay anything because I'm special (sponsored) and I've bought enough in the past to make up for it lol.

Prices should all be on his site.

I get mine done locally at sign factory in Southend, just find a sign maker place near you.

[Brettoll]

I didn't pay anything because I'm special (sponsored) and I've bought enough in the past to make up for it lol.

Prices should all be on his site.

I get mine done locally at sign factory in Southend, just find a sign maker place near you.

That's sweet!

Ok im probably being thick but the only price I can see is the $250, which is for the frame but nothing about postage to the UK etc....I will send him a message.

I will tap up some friends and get something cool made.

Thanks for your help everyone

[dirt jumper jake]

I had one of marinos early fourplay geo frames, didnt think too much to it really. but from what other people have said he's alot better than he was. go for it if you want a strong cheap frame that has geo you want

[Ross McArthur]

Just another couple of pointers.

Hit Marino up on Face Book, hes got loads of pictures of his work there. Plus people who have built his frames up tag him in so you can see what’s about.

Go to his website too and have a trawl through the bog. Most of its in Spanish but again, you can look at the pretty pictures.

When it comes to colour, ok your not too bad, you only want black but if it was something in particular you wanted, all you would have to do is send him a picture and say, "this colour please".

Try thinking outside the box a little with the geo. Why folk build frames with 390-385-380 back ends is beyond me? The shorter the better IMO. So don’t just go with the standard/norm of frames now a days.

Don’t just go with the 2 point whatever tyre clearance either, go for the biggest you can, just in case you decide to go for a bigger tyre in the future.

If it’s an old school bike you’re going for I take it you'll have a seat? Make sure you have a long enough seat tube and it’s at a reasonable angle so that the seat you run doesn’t hit the tyre when slammed. I recommend a 300mm 73 degree seat tube (same as mine).

I was reading the "why do stock bikes have long stems thread". It got me thinking. My advice to you would be is, if it’s a short bike you’re going for; don’t go for anything less than 73degrees on the head tube. It means you can run a shorter stem and the bike will ride/look more streety. Keeping on the head tube advice - the forks im sending you have plenty of steerer, so when designing your frame, ask for at least 110mm of head tube. It means you don’t clog up your steerer with spacers - looks shit and weakens your set up.

[Brettoll]

Thanks for that Ross..

To be honest, I saw a mod he made with an awesome smoke black frame (like the Koxx rims a few years back) so I have asked about that.

Thanks for your input on the geo front, im trying to avoid too short (1010-1020) so stuck it at a 1035 with 385 chainstays as that was the wb and chain stays on my Ashton. With a 74 degree head angle and 110mm headtube.

Also stuck in a little rise (+10mm).

That should be ideal for me as its still short enough for a bit of spin etc, but I can also proper trials it a little bit.

Found THIS site a bit of help too as it has an (old) but accurate list of some of the bikes I was looking at inspiraton from.

Nothing is set in stone yet though so will definately look at shorter chainstays for a more street feel.

Cheers,

Brett

[Ali C]

more bb rise will help with spins, as will a shorter back end, more so than a shorter wheelbase will do anyway..

[Brettoll]

Cheers Ali.

I might have a look on bikecad when I get home to have a play about see what the different variations look like

Maybe start with something like this...

1035mm wb

365 chain stays

+20 mm bb rise

73 degree seat tube

74 degree head tube

[Ali C]

you may run into trouble with tyre/chainring/seat clearence with that short a chainstay length and seat tube angle

[Ross McArthur]

If you keep with the 1035mm WB but change your back end from 385mm to something shorter, that means the cockpit will be made longer, meaning you'll be more outstretched making it harder to pull up for bunny hops. So you'll have to have a bit of come and go with the WB.

Ok, if the cockpit space is increased you can reduce it with the higher BB height.

Gets me annoyed sometimes thinking about it.

[Brettoll]

you may run into trouble with tyre/chainring/seat clearence with that short a chainstay length and seat tube angle

Yeah this is the problem with no flash on the office pc's so I can't look at the geo and clearance on a CAD system. So at the moment I am wildly throwing numbers into the air or making quick rubbish stick drawings with a protractor at my desk (im really busy today as you can tell)

Will try the original plan (below) and work from there I think...

• 1035mm Wheelbase

• 385mm Chain stays

• +10mm BB rise

• 74 Degree Head angle

• 74 Degree Seat angle

Cheers again Ali

If you keep with the 1035mm WB but change your back end from 385mm to something shorter, that means the cockpit will be made longer, meaning you'll be more outstretched making it harder to pull up for bunny hops. So you'll have to have a bit of come and go with the WB.

Ok, if the cockpit space is increased you can reduce it with the higher BB height.

Gets me annoyed sometimes thinking about it.

Ha ha, well im having a quiet day in the office so its keeping me entertained.

The only down side is no access to any online CAD sites due to our childish internet usage policy....

I need a new job

Edited November 16, 2010 by Brettoll

[Brettoll]

Ok that was speedy!

Sent through my spec this morning to see if it was achievable and already hes got a CAD mock up....

Any thoughts on this?

LINKY LINK LINK

Also this is the colour I am looking at, but with a splash of pink for the stickers....

Edited November 16, 2010 by Brettoll

[LEON]

If it's pure street stuff you're after I think 1035 is too long with 385 stays, remember the old school bikes gone by, alot of those had 395-400mm stays, and taking so much off your rear end will just add it to the top tube length as you're keeping the same wheelbase, effectively pulling up like a bike with a 1045-1050 wb in regards to reach and slightly longer stays, see what I mean? I've been there, mine's 385 stays with 1015 wb and I would happily take 10mm off the front triangle if I could.

Also 74 deg is pretty effing steep, about as steep as it gets without being a micro scooter! Bunyhop suicide, I'm warning you it will not bunnyhop! lol, what exactly do you want it to do? I made the mistake with my first few marino's.

When considering wheelbase/reach you have to take into account bikes have lost 10-15mm off the rear end in the last 10 years, this doesn't affect your reach, but the 10-15mm you'll be adding to the top tube will make all the difference.

Long stays make a bike far worse on the back wheel than a short wheelbase, so don't think it's gonna backhop like crap just because it's short, mine feels fine with the 385 stays and it's only 1015 wb, personally I wouldn't go any shorter as it can feel unstable with high speed bunnyhops to manuals etc, quite twitchy.

Edited November 16, 2010 by LEON

[Brettoll]

Ok, im looking for something that is short enough to bunnyhop, but isn't a pain to keep on the back wheel....

So something that sits between MK1 t-rex I first had which was waay to short in the cockpit with 400mm chain stays, and something like the Ashton which could hop but still was inclined to be a more back wheel orientated frame.

But I understand about taking the top/downtube legnth down and creating a shorter wb, just having a dunce day today.

Well perhaps taking the wb down to 1025 but keeping the chainstays the same would create that shorter cockpit needed to make it more streety in feel?

Any thoughts??

Also thanks for the heads up with the headtube angle, was remembering the old echo 74 degree'ers I used to ride, but geo wise they were a hell of a lot different.

Perhaps taking it towards the 70 would be better

Edited November 16, 2010 by Brettoll

[LEON]

Well, what do you think of zebdi's? Mk 3/4.

Mine measures 1025 wb, 390 stays.

The zebdi was a great all round ride, but wasn't a bunny hop monster, it was good with the correct fork/bar/stem, but was no zero/norco.

I basically went 5mm shorter on stays and 10mm shorter overall, but I have a slack 70deg head angle so my reach is very short (20mm less than a zebdi) That's like tilting your head tube back nearly an inch while keeping the wheelbase the same.

Also your +10bb won't help with bunnyhops, and you'll need a slightly higher bar/stem than usual to counter it, but like I said, that 74 deg head angle is the killer, ever ridden a curtis T1?? Don't.

Zebdi top tube = 573mm

My top tube = 545mm

In comparison the 600mm top tube in your drawing is huge, that's an extra inch reach over a zebdi, plus a steeper head angle to make pulling up even harder.

Edited November 16, 2010 by LEON

[Brettoll]

Loved that Zebdi actually, was a good mixture and was not bad at hopping with the right short stem and high bar combo.

Soooo might have to re-jig and go for a 1025 wb with 385 stays (still keeping them stays a little short) I think with a slight less slack head angle than yours at 72 degrees.

Im inclined to disagree on the bb rise, I can hop with a + bb and I actually managed to pop a little hop out of my TMS the other day. Even though I did look like I was about to load my pants. But it still achievable.

My logic is keeping it at +10 its got a little more clearance than a 0 bb that can be countered with a slightly higher rise stem and bar combo (2 inch risers with a 15 degree rise stem perhaps) so again you get a little bit of both worlds.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Brettoll