Dang!

Hmmm.. Well I can certainly weld it on there, without much ado- I think I will test it out first anyhow- It seems that a +40 adapter on a +20 welded mount, would have the same flex as a +40 adapter. Sure the bolts are farther away, but I would think that most of the flex would come from each mechanical connection. The adapter pictured does key into the dropout creating a stronger connection. Plus the added benefit for those folks that don't want the mount. No grinder needed! Anyway- if people want a +20 welded on- I can certainly do it.

My plan is to include a 128mm ISIS BB and a king or Viz headset with the frame. SO the only real issue will be fitment of the crown race. Also, I have mentioned a number of time the disc adapter. Here is a photo of the 203mm adapter. The bike will come with a 160 and a 180, probably not a 203... I am also looking into making a post mount adapter as well.

I was hoping Adam would jump in, but I think I will contact him direct.

Hey now- That is a fine post. I have no qualms with constructive criticism, or a straight up bashing as long as its a substantive. As a broad generalization most people who are going to try and pull a shitty move like break something on purpose, or try and steal a public item, are the types of people who post shit, and trash on things just to do it, on the other hand the bloke that types up a well thought out paragraph about his concerns and thoughts on a subject, is more likely to be the guy that takes care of his stuff, and thinks about how his actions effects others. Now there is always an exception to any rule. As a business person and a human, I can not base my life on these few people. So I depend on people like yourself who honestly care about something to help guide this event through the chaos. We are talking about @ 12 people, let's hope we can find 12 honest and interested people out of the hundreds of millions of people to choose from. As far as the general populous of the TF, the more time I spend on it, honestly the less comfortable I feel. I like the thought, but then it stays in one place and those that live in other country's don't get to try it?

Well put Mr. Wood- Oh and Mr. Basher, don't forget to sign your name to the "will not be participating" list on your way out.

Thoughts on choosing who and when- Well- let's look at the different regions, and who in those areas is interested in participating. I think sharing within a group is a great idea, but it cuts the "rider's" time short or doesn't allow others to have much time with it. Now that being said- most everyone who has ridden the CAELIFERA for more than just a moment has commented on how natural and comfortable it feels. VA-TICK (OTN) rode it in a comp' on his second pass and scored better for it. That says a lot for a frame, running new equipment in a comp' is a recipe for disaster usually. Anyway- I suggest that if there is going to be a group: either the time is longer or it counts as more than one rider (which means they are on the official roster and are expected to post their share of video and pictures). Again keep in mind your riding season- The official kick-off should be January. If you can't make the time to ride it well, make some video or take pictures, and actively be a part of this- then don't be a part of this. It's simple as that. There are plenty of riders who will want to be a part of this history, don't ruin it for them. There are far more riders in Europe than here in the states, so finding 12 might be challenging. A poll or a vote is a great way to do this, maybe... Of you who are also on other forums in languages other than English, please pass this on- English is not a requirement to participate. It just happens to be the only language I can communicate in.

Something like that- The frame is the 44trials "caelifera"

The concept for tracking as it exists now, is to have a blog/ website/ thread, that those that desire to be apart of this will log into, have a user ID that has address and contact information, associated with but not seen by the general public. Let say you have the frame now- You're riding it at the end of your month and put a nice ding in the drive side chainstay- as you're breaking the bike down and are packing the frame up, you sign the ding, maybe find a country flag to put by it? You check the blog to see who is next in line, maybe you received a PM from me or email that contains the shipping address and contact info of the next person, either way you make contact to tell them it's coming, and ask how they want it shipped (you pack it appropriately, they pay for shipping to themselves), maybe they want to drive down and get it? Either way- shipping gets arranged and paid for, you put it in the post and off it goes. The next person logs into the site and says they received it, so on and so on. Hopefully at this point you are editing your footage and pictures and posting them to the ftp site and the media section of your preferred forum. Hopefully you took pictures of the frame as you received it and after you built it up- At the end I am going to compile a master DVD with all the best footage and pictures staring you. Make sure you include how you want to be named and the location of the ride spot. I hope to have a visual tracking system of the frame as it moves around the world. A map with thumb tacks, or a map with route lines, maybe attached to google earth? So that we can all see where the frame is, where it has been, and where it is going next. I would like it to also show the names or user names of the riders, think about how you would like that represented. PS: I would love help / ideas with said site.

So I guess we can you officially count you out. Of course the frame is going to have the potential of becoming a candidate for "recycling for crack". A great cause by the way- All aluminum frames have a life expectancy, even if built to the nines, they will fatigue and crack eventually. The point is to have the opportunity to ride a boutique frame with out the risk of having to purchase it. If you're a hack and destroy it, your f**kin' the next guy in line. So if you can't ride it, without breaking it, don't ride it. I do agree that a week is too short, I suggest a month per rider.

Yes- Any and all of Europe.

I absolutely plan on sending one to Europe, and the UK is a great place to start no? As far as who's first- I think Mr. Leacock has dibs. But I will most likely work with Adam to establish some key riders. The frame is a competition frame, that has been designed around natural. I really don't know how well it will fair urban? I would love to see somebody place at a comp' with it. That's where it really belongs.

Or- "where in the world is caelifera?" So, we're done doing initial testing on the frame and have initial orders coming in (all custom so far). I am doing a little tweaking on the proto and then am going to paint it and put final decals on. I am going to put it in a case and ship it to the next tester... or series of testers. So here is where the idea part comes in. 44trials sets up one or more frames with: (headset, BB, and chain tensioner only) and sends it out to a tester, who builds it up and rides it for a month or so, and sends it to the next tester, so on and so on. Each tester: is obligated to arrange shipment one-waybuild up with appropriate partsrecord build and complete weight if applicablewill video document their experience and/or right in the log or blogwill sign any major dents, scrapes, or breaks with their name and date with a supplied indelible pen.correspond with other testers to arrange transfer and prepare bike to it's receivedyou Don't state and pack for shipment.have a shit ton of fun with a brand new frame!The idea is to see just how long and how far it will go, not to see how fast it will break- you'll be ruining it for the next person in line. The last person to get it will be me, even if it comes back broken. If it breaks, I will repair it. Or better yet, if there is a good welder in the area, have them repair it- record the event and keep the ball rolling. This is not specific to the US, I see no reason to extend this to the whole world. With that being said- it might be wise to sort out the tester order so that shipping is not more expensive than the frame. Bear in mind your riding season too? I have in mind some people to start this off with, I hope people like the idea. If so, I would love to see this thread get a sticky so it becomes the blog for the concept. Well... I have no idea how to create a blog, I'm a designer and fabricator for shit sake. The blog will act as an official sign up for testers, will keep track of where it is, where it's been and where and when it's going next. This will also allow us to place hate upon any who think it a great idea to just keep the frame. Yes. I am talking about youDon't do it! Oh and maybe a bonus... All official testers who post and record their experience will receive 12% off the purchase of their own frame or free custom engraving on the integrated booster. Who's with me! Please see the exisitng thread on OTN: http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=39127

A SERIES OF STILLS FROM A TEST RIDE WITH MUDDYFOX AT THE HELM! http://www.flickr.com/photos/32020789@N03/...57608595344655/

Most likely a loose headset- but the noise can also be a result of a loose handle bar. What bar is it? I have had Tryall bars that just start creaking after awhile. Do you know how to check for a loose headset? If not have some one help you isolate your problem. Riding with a creak in the steering can rob one of confidence.

yup-

The mod frame is roughly based off the short Hydroxx with a few tweaks- This geometry is specific for a pro rider here in the states, who happens to be well under six feet. That being said- the "standard" geometry for the mod frame is yet to be determined. I am still looking for more input from the rider base. I posted this mod simply to illustrate what the mod looks like. Too answer your question directly: the stem being chosen for this frame is in fact a Viz Mod Logic stem 150mm, 30 deg. rise. I do see a lot of guys around the six foot range riding older smaller mods, maybe there is a really good reason? I would recomend a frame that has a longer wheel base and longer reach.

The bracket keys into the rear drop out, and uses M6 bolts. Honestly it's untested at the moment, so I can't say whether it works or not. My thought is: many of us are using +20 or +40 bolt-on adapters for our front disc, right? They work great. In fact I have never had a problem with them other than they can be pretty unfortunate looking. Really? Is that a real word? For shit sake, if your going to bash on someones work, at least have the common decency to use the spell check!

I am also willing to help work through geo questions and how they may apply to the ride. It has also been suggested that a guideline be developed. A range in which is allowable within the confines of the design. IE there is only so short a chainstay can be before the tire hits. I only recommend custom geo alterations to riders who know the difference, and aren't making a choice just for the sake of being different. There is also a point at which the choice becomes it's own design, this is fine, but will not be covered under the "custom geo' plan" what.... gad damn right! I will build custom one-off frames. And it will have some twisted difficult to fabricate nature to it, like everything else I design.

No offense taken- and I hope non is taken by my reply: Your question is valid, well thought out, and well written- lets have some more of these! I think that deciding the perfect geometry for yourself might be comprised of personal experience on bikes you've owned, bikes you've ridden, where your ability lies, what type of riding you do, what type of body you have. Are you tall with a short torso, short with a long legs, stocky, lanky, just plain big, or small, ect... Through trial and error, you will come to a conclusion of what works for you. Or you can ask around, see what more experienced riders recommend. There is no standard or method of fitments at this point, but there is and endless list of opinions. Take Basher who posted right after you, he asked what the geo plan is, and then stated that he wouldn't ride anything over +30. So, even though his statement is not specific about exactly what he wants, we know that there are only so many frames available now with +30 and below- So he owns, or is going to buy something that fits this specification. There will be those who want some extreme change, IE Koxx and their +90 business. But Benito knows what he wants, and should have a frame that works for him, Benito can probably ride this like a god, but how many others can ride like him? And why would Koxx make it part of the line? On the other hand there are pro's out there riding the company frame and not liking the geo, but don't have a choice but to switch companies to get on something they like. If you don't know what you want, a custom geo probably isn't a wise investment. But if you do, I can't think of a better investment in yourself for your riding. As far as warranty- I think that I will warranty the frames for 6 months. But I am still working on this part. I will personally deal with people who are having issues with my product, I will stand behind my product until the day I drop gap 6 ft under.

Close- The standard is: 1085, +40, 71.5*,385 This is only because of what works for me and the direct input from other riders, and there has to be a starting point. But the point is: Obviously this is not going to work for everyone, no one is really the same size. So: do you make do with a frame that want but a geo' you don't want, or by a frame just for its geo', or do you spend another £92.00 to get exactly what you want?

Adam, Is it true that if a larger shipment of frames was imported (say 10) then the total shipping and VAT cost would be divided amongst the 10 frames making the cost less per frame than importing one or two frames?

I pulled this over from the vid section, as it belongs here- "44trials is a rider owned and driven company, our plan is to select key components and aspects of trials and improve upon or tweak things in the way that we wish the market will move. There are some things like rims and freewheels that just don't make sense to jump into just yet. I suspect a lot of this stuff is all made in the same place anyway... moving on... A big part of this for me is listening to other riders and hearing what they want, what they have experienced and developing my product around riders needs. Sure there are a lot of people spinning shit, but there are riders who really know what they are talking about and will pay for quality product that is designed around them. I know I am not the only one tired of large manufacturers deciding what I want, for me- Honestly I do want to compete with Koxx, I think they have lost touch a little. The 2009 line has some really aggressive geometry, that some pro's really want, but I'm not willing to pay that much to figure out if it works for me. Don't get me wrong, I want a Koxx just as much as the next guy- But I can make a frame as light, as strong, with geometry that suits my body and riding style. Koxx can't do that- Mr. Koxx doesn't give a damn about me and what I might want. Anyway- I am going to do my best to get some frames over to a few riders, hopefully they'll share. And I will also be sending some to Adam for testing next batch. As I am doing these one at a time, they are going to take time to build. For what they are $700.00 US is cheap. There is little I can do about the VAT, sorry. Hinmaton"

Thanks, it's taken a little over a year to get this going right. 44trials is a rider owned and driven company, our plan is to select key components and aspects of trials and improve upon or tweak things in the way that we wish the market will move. There are some things like rims and freewheels that just don't make sense to jump into just yet. I suspect a lot of this stuff is all made in the same place anyway... moving on... A big part of this for me is listening to other riders and hearing what they want, what they have experienced and developing my product around riders needs. Sure there are a lot of people spinning shit, but there are riders who really know what they are talking about and will pay for quality product that is designed around them. I know I am not the only one tired of large manufacturers deciding what I want, for me- Honestly I do want to compete with Koxx, I think they have lost touch a little. The 2009 line has some really aggressive geometry, that some pro's really want, but I'm not willing to pay that much to figure out if it works for me. Don't get me wrong, I want a Koxx just as much as the next guy- But I can make a frame as light, as strong, with geometry that suits my body and riding style. Koxx can't do that- Mr. Koxx doesn't give a damn about me and what I might want. Anyway- I am going to do my best to get some frames over to a few riders, hopefully they'll share. And I will also be sending some to Adam for testing next batch. As I am doing these one at a time, they are going to take time to build. For what they are $700.00 US is cheap. There is little I can do about the VAT, sorry. Hinmaton

I know it's a pain in the ass, but if you get a chance to skip over to OTN and check out http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=38483 A lot of your questions will be answered. Also watch the vimeo version- it's mutch better http://www.vimeo.com/2091232 I will get an actual post up here, when I get more photos and we've had more time to put the frame through it's paces. The caelifera is a UCI Comp' frame made of 7005 AL, it's quite light and super rigid.

The truth is, it can't. So you assume full penetration continuous welds. The program will consider the joint as strong as the parent material. From there you have to make more assumptions. The weld cracked- is it a bad weld or bad design. It is easy to screw up an aluminum weld.