† CETFLY †

There are far heavier riders riding all different styles of stock frames and setups. 64kg is nothing to be concerned about. Theres a 200pound dude on here snapping things. Fair enough if youre landing hard, big gaps etc etc. Everything has its limits, but being 64kg wont be snapping frames unless youre doing huge things on it. He's beginning as he keeps saying. Its a perfect bike for him and wont give him any troubles or snap/crack

Trials will build up your lower back muscles and back muscles in general, THATS for sure!

Cheers mate, youre more than welcome. Looking forward to meeting up on tuesday when you grab it from me As per the PM, we'll duck over to the skate park so I can show you how it can be ridden

My apologies on the freight part I mentioned before mate. Its different going within the country as generally they use couriers. When youre on a 27hour flight with a couple of stop overs, they dont care about peoples things and just throw them in. Yeah, thats what I thought too about the frame box. This box is the same width as the one my mountain bike came in from the US. That box was hammered. Had large holes in the side from impacts and you could easily put your hand in if you wanted and grab anything you could reach. I dont want a repeat of that I'll use the other old bike box of mine, cut it up and line the inside. I'll try to somehow get some solid foam (not stirofoam) blocks to push in to give the box some side-impact bracing and strength to maintain its shape.

Ive come from the same background mate. Been mtb'ing all my life. I just could never go to a mod at all. Nothing under 24". I just dont like the look of them, the size, anything about them. I prefer 24 or 26 stock Check you inbox and give me a call now mate. Need to chat about this bike of mine....

Mate....youre a champion among men. THAT was driving me nuts. Thank you. Hahaha of course I have mate Its purely the rear end of the frame which is my concern. To me it seems I'll just have to put some hard cardboard sections lining the inside rear end for the frame to not be damaged. Heres how it is curently.

+1

Yes "He" will and does help. Has been a lot lately Anyway, yeah I agree with the Tarty comment. I need to ring Tarty and ask them how they send them. I think with Airline companies, they tell you they arent responsible for any broken or damaged property stored in the cargo hold of the plane. Things move around etc. I just know these frames have wide back ends (135mm axles) plus frame thickness. The last thing I need is a bent frame. I really need to get some of those frame separators.... that replace the hub in the dropouts. Theyre made of strong plastic and keep the frame open.

Here you go mate http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/forum/index....howtopic=137095 Im in London too if you wanted to come around to have a look youre more than welcome I can hop really easily and well on the back wheel of mine... its a really nice bike mate. Being completely honest

Whats going on with this forums website? Why is it going back to the terrible, hard to view one reply per click links?? It was so much better when you just simply scroll down and read what everyones said instead of having to actually go through one at a time and then having to go back to re-read what people have said etc. Anyway, back to boxes. I cant get the frame in mate. Its the exact outside width of the box. You've never had a bike box sent over long distances I see from your reply These boxes get TRASHED. They get crushed, squashed, everthing Bike boxes just get hammered by lazy airport baggage handlers. They simply dont care as they throw your bike where it has to go. My mountain bike, on arrival to the UK from the US, was pretty hammered. The box had some holes/big tears in it. Thank God the guy I bought it off had his LBS pack it. It was heavily, heavily, HEAVILY packed with solid blocks of foam (to stop the box being crushed sideways, denting the frame), bubble-wrapped to death and came safely to me. I need to allow for side impacts, squashing etc or this frame will be a very expensive scrap of scrap ally. I need a one or two inches (ideally) either side of the frame to allow for packing. I can see now theres no chance of me fitting two frames in the one box

Ive decided that, from lack of demand and interest on the Onza Woodstock Ive been trying to sell, I'll have to take it home with me. I picked up a couple of bike boxes today which are each too narrow, width-wise, to fit my trials bike in. They're 190mm wide. I need at least 250. My frame wont even fit in it as-is! What bike boses have you guys used in the past? Need to know really quickly as we need to pack the bikes up ready for sending home Cheers boys Wes

Ohh brother, I will be hey! We were way too busy today to ring Tarty. Im calling Ali C tomorrow about it all. Need to make sure the frame is still there before anything else goes ahead! Need to pick up this bike box, start stripping my moutain bike down to make sure two frames and larger parts will fit inside the one box. So much to do

Yeah, I'll need to do that. I need the widest box I can get my hands on

LOL

LOL - never said it was I know. Like you said "Deng" is the name of the guy who owns them

Mine basically IS new though. Only need a couple of parts and the price is great. Wouldnt advise it if youre just learning as you'll bash up a nice new one. Up to you though of course

Makes sense, the smaller you go the more manouverable. Simple physics Try something new, go my 26". When you get good at that, you'll be incredible on a 20". Im in no way trying to sway your choice of course hehehe

Ive got mine for sale here. Its an Onza Woodstock: http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/forum/index....howtopic=137095

Yeah.... was thinking back to what people said were "Deng" bikes (ie: typically chinese) and it was Echo, Gu, Czar (from what I was told) If there are more to add to the list, please inform me as Id like to know. It wont be the cnc machining or quality of the hubs themselves, it will be the cheap bearings (cheap soft metal) they use. If you can grab a good hub, like the Echo SL Disc, put in some Japanese or German bearings you'll be sweet I think.

Crap, the server keeps having a heart attack. I fully edited what I said prior to posting but it put up what I'd written before the editing. Its been doing this all night. I clicked "back" and it went back to what you'd have received in your email accounts. Anyway, ive gone through and tried to put it how i had it before it all went wrong, so here it is He ignored the emails and PM's Id sent. He shouldve gotten back to me and at least let me know. Ive got sent-email copies and also sent-PM copies and the inbox PM from him with the price offered at 185 posted. I sent him PM's, emails and gave him my number in both. Theres no way he couldnt have gotten the messages. He just wanted a higher paying sale. I just hope he doesnt do business dealings like this in the future where if he gets a better offer he just ignores the other buyer whom he offered it to at the beginning. He needed to at the very least -even if he was going to go down that road which isnt right anyway- give the other person a chance to counter offer. He wouldve gotten more from me if he'd done the right thing and replied to me. I wouldve also bought extra parts. I'll forgive him for whatever happened, but I just dont want him to get himself in trouble with business dealings in the future of more expensive items. Ive seen it before, the more money that is involved, the more the person cares. Anyway , look its done now, I dont want to keep talking on and on about it and repeating what happened. I just hope that he learned something from this, that he did tread on people toes. Lets move on. Id appreciate your input fellas, into what you think about a wheel build for the Inspired? Check out my thread here: http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/forum/index....howtopic=137287 Cheers

Looking to build a set of wheels for an Inspired, with streety/trials setup (which theyre designed for ) What would everyone recommend for 24" build? Im trying to keep the weight down, I weigh 74kg (163pounds) so I dont think they really need to be over the top. Ive heard 36spoke is overkill, so Im guessing 32 is fine and what these Hope Pro2 trials hubs normally use anyway? It doesnt say on Tartys. Id prefer to keep buckles right down on the rear wheel as Im using HS33 rim brakes so if I need to go 36spoke rear, then I will. The front Im not too fussed as I have disc, so I'll stick to 32spoke. For the front I was looking at an Echo SL Disc hub from Tarty. They look mad! What rims would you boys recommend for me after reading this?

Feeling pretty unhappy I can tell you that much... For sure mate, any time. Im just sorry its not good news hey as what he's done has stuffed both of us around. Would love to have given you good news. I would also really loved to have saved that 80quid. I need to get a total build cost worked out to as its quickly getting stupid with the parts I need, but also I want people to get back to me about the parts Im constantly asking them for. Really wish people on here in the for sale sections were more reliable and cared about how others feel. Having said that, the only reason Im being affected by it all its purely down to the pressure Im under to get the parts, box them up and ship them home with all my life belongings Ive aquired here. If not for that, I wouldnt be getting too bothered by it. Thing is, many of the members on this forum are around 22yo (from the average Ive personally seen anyway- I could be wrong). Many are still living at home with mum and dad, havent travelled, and havent experienced the stress and pressure you get under when trying to pack your life up and trying to send it home by the cheapest means. Its nothing against them at all though. Its not their fault in any way. My point is that if they'd been through what Im currently going through, they'd be more likely to keep me up to date with whats happening with the sales of their items, considering the urgency Im chasing them with. I have my mountain bike here too for example. Im not selling it as I wont get even 600 when I spent 2800pounds on it. Best bike Ive ever bought and Im not selling it. Theres no need, its brilliant. Ive heard so many bad stories of the shipping freight companies and things going missing. I also dont want to have to go through the hell of trying to convince them that Ive owned the bike for over a year (without having a receipt) to avoid paying the taxes and duties they try to charge on bringing my own, used-not new, bike back home with me. Its either that or I get this Inspired frame, put it in the same bike box as the mountain bike and fit as many parts in there as possible. Get my partner, Julie, to take that as her "luggage" on the plane and declare it as "sports goods" which on average for air companies is a 20kg allowance. If I have to strip my bike down (which I will) to make sure the bike box with the frames and most expensive parts all fit and stay under 20kg, then I will. I'll put the cheaper parts in the small boxes via the shipping company and run the risk of them going missing. The other smaller expensive parts (like brakes hubs etc- if I cant get full wheel builds) I'll take with me in my suitcase luggage so I know they cant get stolen. The boxes being sent through the shipping company will take 3months to get there. Anything can happen at either end of the trip in terms of theft, loss etc. Im trying to avoid as many costs as possible and trying to get as many good parts as possible or I'll have to import them to me in Aus from here later on when Im at home. In that case I'll most likely get them without paying duties. Though not always, unless the box is big enough to pick up on customs radar for them to charge duties on it. So theres a lot of stuff going on atm. Julie just got here today. We've just gone through the bag she brought her stuff in to find her phone has been stolen which I bought her for Christmas. Theres NOTHING worse than having to go through the ringer with insurance companies to make claims and get items replaced. The other reason I wont be sending my bike through the shipping company is from what they told me on the phone. You guys will LOVE this....lol "No, we wont be delivering the bike box for you" Me: "Whys that?" "You need to give your bike to the delivery man when he drops the boxes off for your other smaller items. He takes your bike back to the depo and the people there disassemble it, box it up and we send it to you" Me: *burst out laughing* "Are you serious?? Theres absolutely no way Im just giving my bike over to a truck driver for someone else to disassemble and box up." "This is how it works if we are to send your bike" Me:"My bike is very expensive. Theres no way Im just handing it over to a complete stranger, for more complete strangers to pull it apart to box up. I can do this myself. Im sorry, I dont trust any one else to do this. What if it gets damaged by them or there are parts missing when it gets to Aus? Of course they'll say 'that was already like that' or 'that wasnt there when e disassembled the bike at the depo'. Ive been through this before and Im not doing it again. So theres no way you can just send the box and have me box the bike up myself? Look, im in NO way interested in going through an insurance claim if somethings damaged. This bike is very expensive and I dont have the time, money or patience to go through all the crap that has to happen with making a claim. I will avoid that at ALL costs. If I cant do the bike box then we cant do the other boxes as this just isnt going to work for us. We want one company to do the lot, not bits and pieces." "If you get your own bike box its fine, we'll send it for you once you box the bike up" Me: ".............?? Sorry? How is this any different from the beginning? The only difference is I'll have a bike box ive had to get myself, instead of your one?" "Yes, thats fine. We need to pack our own boxes as we know how to and if you used our box and packed it incorrectly, then we're liable" Me:"......... *felt like stating that a bix is a friggen box, theres REALLY not that much science to them or between one box and another, but I didnt* I'm going to pack it myself with so much packaging as I dont want anything damaged. You wouldnt be liable as its expensive, I dont want anything broken or damaged and just want it delivered to me as Ive packed it. Are you sure you cant just send the box?" "Sorry, no. If you get your own it will be fine though" And it went on. In the end, im getting my own box and trying to pack two frames in it with the most expensive stuff in that box and my luggage suitcase for the plane flight, instead of in the small boxes through the shipping company. I cant find a box online though. Ive found a box which is long enough, but not wide enough (literally would only fit one bike) Unfortunately, the bike box the shipping company uses are 210mm wide. This is the ideal size I need. Im going to try to get to a LBS and ask them for a free box and some rim boxes etc to put the parts in. Going to need a frame box incase someone wants to buy my Onza Woodstock which nobody's replied to. May need to send that home to Aus too and try to sell it there as simply no-one seems to be keen on any of the parts which is pretty heart breaking. I need the money from that to go towards the Inspired build.

Cant believe it. He sold it to someone else for 220 when he offered it to me - posted- for 185 which I agreed to. Not cool, not cool at all. No emails, no replies, NOTHING at all. I wouldve bought it for 220 or a bit more anyway as it saves me money from a new frame which Im now forced to buy. He wouldve made more from me with the extra parts I was chasing but now I cant even trust him to reply so will look elsewhere. He's missing out on more sales due to this which is his own doing He just chickened out and didnt even want to talk with me about money as he felt worried I spose. He still shoudve, purely out of respect. I was emailing him asking him to let me know what was going on regardless so I can inform Tarty's but he didnt even do that. Not cool, not at all. Pretty unhappy with the way he's gone about all this as its stuffed me around a hell of a lot and also you now. He hasnt realised - or cared- that it goes down the line and has made other people unhappy.

Again, you keep going into the old testiment. Look to the new testiment and God not smiting people. Ive read your replies fully, you need to do the same for mine. Ive not been vague, but I dont think anyone -as stated in previous replies- can answer all your questions. Even if they did you still would have issues with it. Lets just agree to disagree as theres no point dragging it out if youre just out to get christians which it seems youre doing. I dont mind, I sleep just fine at night -when Im not packing for Aus all night long! Spider Lad: "What's wrong with the pursuit of knowledge and understanding? Ignorance of the evidence that is there to explain alot of the reasons you are here and just saying 'it must be god" instead of making the effort to elighten yourself of the truth, now that's a shame." Nothing at all! God is all FOR us being intelligent. He doesnt want us making silly choices and not using the brain he gave us. Many things of God can be scientifically explained and actually coincide with the bible. Do a search medically on when they spear Jesus in the side after He died and water came out. It confused the heck out of the Romans, but they documented it. It fits in perfectly medically with why water would come out. Do a search on it, its interesting! Im really interested in science and a fair few scientists believe in God from the level of depth theyve gone into with their studies. They just cant see how things could just "randomly happen" like the big bang. Everything has order- the complete opposite of random Enlighten myself of the Truth, I have God word is called "Truth". Onzaboymark: "Because if we just blindly tag everything as 'being God', then we never learn anything." No, thats not true. God wants us to learn. He wants us to know as much as possible. He delights in what we learn. Imagine have a son and seeing him discover something new for the first time. You'd be excited, whether you actually have kids or not, you would be. Like watching them learn how to walk for the first time. "For example the advances in medicine we've had - if people had just said "Well, you've got ___ because it's God's will", there'd be a lot more death and illness in the world than there currently is. " I disagree. If we're not challenged to try to fix it and discover ways to stop it, with God backing us up and blessing us in, say research, then we'd all be sitting around doing nothing all day with absolutely no point to our existance. "It's the same for virtually everything though - almost everything on the earth is a product of triumph over adversity, yet if we just gave up in the face of some form of struggle and just said that what was happening was because of God rather than working out reasons then we'd be many steps behind where we are in the world now. Thats a shame" I agree with you totally. Just because it say Gods will for me to have Diabetes doesnt mean I dont want or encourage medical scientists to try to find a cure. I pray God blesses them to stop a world-wide pandemic rather than just selfishly asking for my own healing. What does that gain in the scheme of things? Very little in my eyes. Id honestly rather the world be cured and me just living with it rather than the reverse. "Why isn't it Buddha (Well, it pretty much wouldn't be Buddha for fairly obvious reasons), or any of the other deities that were created before the concept of 'God' came along? Or even ones created after? And why do we just have to assume it was God instead of actually using our own powers of thoug- Oh wait, I'm suggesting we think about shit instead of just blindly accepting things. Probably not going to go over too well, I guess..." Buddha was a man. A large man, very wise. He also said "dont pray to me, Im not God." but people were so impressed with his wisdom and intelligence that they thought he was a god even though he told his followers he wasnt. hehehe nah buddy, youre ok! Whether its something that man has made himself or something has been created and we cant explain it, I believe God had His hand involved in it, either by making it directly, or blessing the people who did make it. Make sense? Hope so Continued from Onzaboymark: "We have no need to, as we no longer have to be the fastest, fittest or strongest to get our food, live and remain healthy. That's pretty obvious?" Then that goes against what most are saying about evolution doesnt it? If evolution were true, it wouldnt just stop "This is the whole crux of the issue for me. People almost always go down this path as it leads to, theoretically, salvation and eternity by God's side or whatever. Even in that quote you still mentioned the fact that there's the personal salvation at the end of it, yet you claim that Christianity is a way of turning away from a self-centred world? Pure rubbish." No, I didnt want it to come across as a way of turning away from. Thats not it. God gives the blessing to confront it and do something about it. Walk against the heavy flow of traffic of society. We need to get down and dirty to help those in need. It doesnt mean we turn our backs on people, on the contrary, we need to go out to our way to help mankind. There are a lot of damaged, broken people out there. Some dont want food or money, they just need someone to talk to or unload all their junk theyve built up in their lives. "Your God is one of the most self-centred concepts there is - again, constantly demanding attention in the form of prayer even though he's theoretically everywhere, demanding people follow only his word and don't dispute it, wants people to turn people to believe in his word, etc. Christianity is based on worshipping God, and it's God who created that religion. What does that tell you about him?" No. Christianity is having relationship with God. Thats what He wants from us. Prayer is simply talking to God. If you were in a relationship with someone, you wouldnt want them to not talk to you would you? Wouldnt be much of relationship. You can pray in your head, or where-ever. God goes against praying out allowed in the public streets etc as it looks like youre trying to prove something or show off that you have a relationship with God. Im not making too much sense with that last comment, im getting super tired so I apologise and hope its understood. God doesnt demand prayer, its something you simply want to do. "There are other religions out there that don't focus on personal salvation as being the reason to not be a dick to everyone, which is why in the weird circumstance that I was forced to choose a religion, it definitely wouldn't be Christianity (Especially in light of all the recent news about how the men of the cloth seem to enjoy f**king about with kids. Considering they are the custodians of your faith, I'm not sure how I could really handle knowing that the people who are telling me how to think are in fact some of the most morally corrupt people around). "Religion" is man made, man concocted "busy-ness" to impress God. God did not, I repeat NOT make up "religion". Jesus was completely against "religioun and religious activities" because they take away from a true relationship with him. Religious peiople try to think that doing good "things" alone, will grant access into heaven and gain favour from God. This isnt true ManxTrialSpaz: "And since you do know the grassroots of evolutionism, that inferior creatures die out I will point you too the Neanderthals etc. Species from which we've evolved from which have in turn died out. If, as you've tried to argue, we were placed on this Earth as we are currently by God, then what is the explanation for the fossils of our ancestors?" Could there not have been a larger ape species? For me, its like this. There are similarities beween us and them. There are also some humans who are staggeringly short, Downs Syndromed, super tall, totally different builds etc etc. These fators can come into play from different dietry intakes in certain regions of the world which can stunt growth, etc etc whatever. Regarding the apes it often come back to the whole "missing link' thing again. I didnt realise it was all 3weeks ago, sorry. Of course, theres no final answer other than wasting a lot of time for not much gain. bikeperson45: From earlier: "I'm a Christian, not hardcore though. I believe in God and that something happens when you die. But I get sick of people trying to sound like they're intellegent or know all about this when really, no one does" Theres no "hardcore or not hardcore" It purely comes down to the level of depth you have in your relationship with God. Thats not true. I know what the word of God says. Its there in black and white. I dont pretend to know all of it, but whats wrong with knowing or understanding things? Thats what God wants! Have you confessed Jesus as Lord and Saviour in your life? Satan and the fallen angels believe in God, but tremble. Just believing but not confessing it verbally doesnt gain access to heaven or a relationship with God. If you asked someone "Do the prime minister of England?" Most would say "of course, Gordon Brown". Right. "Do you know your mother?" ...."uhhh yeah, gave birth to me, lived with her, she likes this, that, doesnt like this and that, has a big heart for people" etc etc. Then they ask you "Do you know Jesus Christ?" ...."Yeah, died on the cross about 2000years ago" etc.... "Yeah good, but do you know Jesus, like you do your mother?".... Most people dont. The know of Him or believe of Him, but dont believe IN Him or know Him at all. The bible is how you get to know the heart of Jesus, his character, personality, love for all, grace, patience, wisdom, peace etc "I hate your little Jesus Christ signature on this forum. What's the point in debating it? You'll only find out when you die. I am Christian, but I'm looser with the rules. I don't really believe in the entire communion thing, where we're aparently eating the body of Christ. And I heavily believe in sex" Fine. You have every right to do so. Thats your choice. So, you disagree with my signature... If you were in Christ Jesus you wouldnt have said what youve just said. I'd personally be re-evaluating what you think being christian really is. Many call themselves christian but dont live the life or really understand it. They go to church, say a few prayers and think theyre all sweet with God. Not true. I may be wrong though, you may be just starting your christian walk...Ahhhh youre catholic then? I was raised catholic. Catholics are ritualistic. You say your prayers and hymns on sunday (or sat night) take Holy Communion and then go home and back to life as it was before church. I used to live that way. Basically asking forgiveness for the things id done throughout the week, then doing it all again next week till the following sunday. Thats not a christian walk. I heavily believe in sex too, but in the constraints of marriage where it was intended. Sure, had a lot of fun outside of that, but it all has consequences, some very damaging... You might be familiar with this passage from Revelation where Jesus said: Rev 3:15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! Rev 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. Basically, He doesnt want you being agnostic. Indecision is still a choice. Its a choice to not make up your mind. To me (have had struggles with my sibling with her wording of things like this) she would say "maybe" when I invited her out with us all. When the time comes and I say "arent you getting ready?" she says "I never SAID I was going, I only said "Maybe"' If its not a yes, then to me everything else is a default. In faith or not. I do that with my business dealings too as I like to be very clear of what my choice is. Jesus is the same. Youre either coming or checking out Christ (which Im glad people will do!) and then coming to Him, being saved but still making mistakes along the way as all christians do. The different is, Christ has covered us. We're covered by Grace. Thats not a license to sin, but He knows we're not going to be perfect, but strive to be in His sight. If you truely love God, you're far less likely to sin. If you concentrate on temptations and sin in your life then youre more likely to fall into it and get frustrated. This is an excerp from Matthews gospel about Jesus walking on the lake: Mt 14:25 During the fourth watch of the night Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. Mt 14:26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear. Mt 14:27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” Mt 14:28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.” Mt 14:29 “Come,” he said. Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. Mt 14:30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!” Mt 14:31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?” Mt 14:32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Mt 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” Its saying when you take your eyes of God and what good He has planned for you, you sink. We need, as christians, to keep our eyes on God first. He wont let us sink. Taking our eyes off him by focussing on temptation, and other problems in life etc if taking our eyes and trust away from God. Ok guys. Please dont forget, im doing my best to answer all the questions single-handedly here and taking a lot of time to do it. I need to bail now, but lke ive said, PM from now on if you want answers to questions and I can only do what I can to help! Take care guys Sorry, edited as I didnt finish my last line above ^

Show me where God demands this of us in the new testiment. God doesnt "demand" anything. That takes away from free will and is then by force. Children give their fathers respect, adulation, worship etc out of love for their father, not out of force. "who threatened to kill him if he loved another person as a father figure; who threatened him with eternal damnation if he didn't believe every word he said unwaiveringly" - where are you getting this from? "who threatened that he was watching his every move and knew his every thought"- show me how/when he "threatened"? "who demanded that he go around telling all the other people around that his father was the best, only and true father even if they all had their own father's ". Again, God doesnt "demand" anything of us. If you had the best spiritual father in the world, wouldnt you want to go and tell everyone so they could experience His love, joy, peace happiness etc in their lives also? I have faith in God and trust His word (the bible) although as stated, I dont pretend to know it all and probably never will. All I focus on knowing first and foremost, is God Himself and his love and care for me in my life. I use the bible to seek the character of God in human form (Jesus) and how he lived a life of helping and blessing others, bringing them to relationship with God and eternity in Heaven, so that I can follow and do the same. Just ask yourself two questions...... What if.....just what if..... its all true....? Then what do you do, with Jesus as the Son of God? Accept Him at his word, or reject him? Why would anyone not want that peace in their lives? Maybe they think they can create their own peace? Hell was never made or intended for humans. It was for satan and the fallen angels. He wants that nobody is lost and that all come to repentance.... This means accepting that Christ took Gods original punishment for our sin, on the cross, and those who accept Christ as Lord and Saviour, and believe in what He did on the cross for us, will be in right relationship with God and be saved. Im taking the below from an audio theatre cd by John Bevere Ministries here www.rescuedaudio.org/ (its got John Rhys-Davies from Lord of the Rings as the voice of God, Marisol Nichols from 24 and Roma Downey from Touched by an Angel to name a few of the cast) John gives a thought provoking section in the end of the cd. Here is one small part of it: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How will you answer if asked "Do you think you'll make it to heaven?" If you said "Im a good person, so yes, i'd make it to heaven!".....this is untrue. You wont be saved or go to heaven by good works, good deeds or because you think "Ive been a good person". Romans (abbreviated as RO below) talks about people who think they'll get to heaven by just being good people. This is untrue. "Ro 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one."" There is a good in the eyes of society and a good in the eyes of God. The two are not one in the same. Infact scripture declares that everyone has sinned and fallen short of Gods glorious standard. (From Adam and Eve's stuff up) Likewise if you simply hope or think you'll make it to heaven, that is also untrue. Nowhere in the bible does it state that one can think or hope their way into heaven. If you say "well....im not sure, but do I love God"...again, you wont make it to heaven with this. If you truely loved God who created heaven and the earth, you would seek to know what it says in his word, rather than just assuming it. So in reality you've just loved an image of a god youve made up in your own mind. This scripture shows that those who are destined for heaven, know it. 1John (New testiment) 1Jn 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 1Jn 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As I said, thats just a section of it. Its a great cd and goes on to show how to be saved and to come into right standing with God. Maybe some are reading this and taking it in, maybe some are christians and unsure of their salvation. If you are christian, and not sure where you'll go, then you need to make that certain. If people arent commenting on this thread doesnt mean what we're saying isnt being read. If I truely didnt care about everyone reading this, and even those who havent yet, I wouldnt have spent pretty much all my afternoon and time writing replies and giving insight and answering as best as possible the questions being put to me. Ive needed to badly clean the house (partners coming back from Aus in the morning woohoo! ) and Ive needed to pack and still sort my bike out. The more I answer as best as I can, the more questions come. Its fine, but Ive put you guys first- just as my own word claimed in previous posts- but I also need that balance to put my partner first now and get things done that need to be done before we leave the country. Just remember, God is FOR you, not against you I hope Ive helped in some way. I know not all will believe, understand or care about what Ive written. I hope that some of you do and Im praying for that also. I respect your opinions on all this as I also hope you do mine as theyve not been offensive or judgemental. God bless guys. Not sure when I'll be back on this section of the forums as im busy the next two weeks, but PM me if you like and I'll try to reply as soon as possible. Take care guys Wes