Braided Hosing.

[kerley]

I'm interested in getting some hope braided hosing to pimp my bike up a bit, but, before i go and spend out on it, has anyone had any experience with any type of braided hosing. Good :- , bad :- ???

Sorry to be asking a question about things that have not been available that long, but i have heard people have had trouble with braided hosing in the past (Y) .

Cheers

Kerley

[Michael Hardman]

I ran goodrdge hosing on my dh bike and then sold the bike.

I has the brakes lef tover so just yesterday changed to a disk brake up front and used my m4 and its as good as it was on the dh bike. my front brake has the solid feel it should have and i can modulate the lever a good cm before the brake bites like a pig.

I m not sure about hs33 just becasue you have to cut two differnet lengths of hose and two lotsa of fiting.

I may try it has i have a spare goodridge hose complete with fittings and some extra cut off hose from a previous goodridged brake. Just need a set of fitting which i can pick up for spares so i may give it a try.

[James_Porter]

goodridge hosing is crap for maggies because the bore (hole) in it is to small and the fluid runs much to slow and gives a crappy feel. not worth going near goodridge hosing for maggies in my opinion.

the normal black stuff seems to be the best stuff so just keep that. i was shocked when i saw the price of the hope braided stuff (Y)

[JT!]

I have heard a few storys about people having problems with it, dosn't seem like its worth bothering with.

[Heatsink]

I'm 99% sure that the Hope braided hosing (all types) is manfactured by Goodridge. Goodridge's catalogue lists the hose and the variety of fittings to suit Hope and Magura brake systems, and there's just no one else to rival Goodridge as far as their size and how well they are established in the braided hosing market. Also Hope mention theirs is UK sourced and there just aren't any other UK based braided hose manufacturers making hosing of the size required for maggies and MTB braking systems.

I believe that the advantages of the braided hosing compared to the plastic hosing are:

1. Tighter bend radius acheiveable without kinking

2. Hose robustness (Guaranteed for 10s of years)

3. Look

The disadvantages are:

1. Cost - Around £30 for a set

2. Smaller internal bore - The outer diameter has to be 5mm to fit through the magura guides on a bike, but the thickness of the innner hose in PTFE plus the braided outer means that the internal diameter is reduced from 2.5mm (standard plastic tube) to 2mm, which means only 64% of the cross-sectional flow area compared to a plastic maggie tube.

3. Hose rubs paint off frame where it contacts more readily than plastic hosing.

4. Some people find it trickier to cut and fit the hosing in a way that it doesn't leak

5. You don't get any cross over fittings so will have to run a plastic cross over spoiling the look.

I've heard that the UNEX stuff is rubbish and the Goodridge or Magura braided hosing (Magura naturally charge more for theirs even though it isn't likely to be better) are the only ones to consider.

I'm sure that I'm not completely right about the above points, since I've never owned or fitted any braided hosing! I look forward to being corrected ;)

Steve

[Waynio]

your spot on steve,

i also heard from a reliable source that Goodridge hosing is produced for hope by themselves.

Hope hosing is £25.00 and comes with all the fixtures and fittings to do one brake.

I personally feel its by far the best looking hosing on the market and everyone raves bout the goodridge stuff, so if anyone winges about the hope stuff you would also winger about the goodridge stuff too! as it comes from the same place.

The goodridge magura stuff is £30.00 JUST for the pipe from lever to piston NO crossover!!!! now thats a rip off!!!!!

Waynio.......................

the hosing does look nicer it has to work better (on Dot4 or dot5 fluid) or it wouldnt have been designed? Magura fluid being mineral based is thicker therfore travels slower and not as well through the smaller holes, unless (Y) someone tries what im thinking of trying............................

im going to put Dot4 in a magura and see how long it takes to ruin the seals in the lever and caliper (probably not long) but if it works any better is the main test.

[James_Porter]

your spot on steve,

i also heard from a reliable source that Goodridge hosing is produced for hope by themselves.

Hope hosing is £25.00 and comes with all the fixtures and fittings to do one brake.

I personally feel its by far the best looking hosing on the market and everyone raves bout the goodridge stuff, so if anyone winges about the hope stuff you would also winger about the goodridge stuff too! as it comes from the same place.

The goodridge magura stuff is £30.00 JUST for the pipe from lever to piston NO crossover!!!! now thats a rip off!!!!!

Waynio.......................

the hosing does look nicer it has to work better (on Dot4 or dot5 fluid) or it wouldnt have been designed? Magura fluid being mineral based is thicker therfore travels slower and not as well through the smaller holes, unless  (Y)  someone tries what im thinking of trying............................

im going to put Dot4 in a magura and see how long it takes to ruin the seals in the lever and caliper (probably not long) but if it works any better is the main test.

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look at this. thats a hell of a lot more than what you just said it would be...are tartybikes ripping us off ;)

i was actually thinking about splashing out on it but seeing the price of it on there made me gag (Y)

[AdamR28]

look at this. thats a hell of a lot more than what you just said it would be...are tartybikes ripping us off (Y)

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Im not sure exactly what Wayne's quoted £25 for. I think thats the price for a universal hose kit.

However, a full HS33 kit requires an additional two M6 connectors, which bumps the price significantly...

[James_Porter]

Im not sure exactly what Wayne's quoted £25 for. I think thats the price for a universal hose kit.

However, a full HS33 kit requires an additional two M6 connectors, which bumps the price significantly...

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would i be able to just get the hope hose line and use my exsisting goodridge connectors?

[AdamR28]

would i be able to just get the hope hose line and use my exsisting goodridge connectors?

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Dunno man, but if what Steve and Wayne have fathomed is correct, then I don't see why not.

[Heatsink]

Hey Waynio!

Do you get the elusive cross over fittings with the Hope branded hose for maggies?

If you're running water instead of mineral oil (maggie blood / LHM oil), then I'd wager that the much reduced viscosity (honey for example is very viscous, water not) would mean that the performance would still be great with the reduced internal diameter of the braided hosing.

Steve

[James_Porter]

sorry im a bit lost here, does this mean that the hope hosing has the same small diameter bore hole as the goodridge hose? or is it wider like the normal maggie black plastic hose?

[Heatsink]

sorry im a bit lost here, does this mean that the hope hosing has the same small diameter bore hole as the goodridge hose? or is it wider like the normal maggie black plastic hose?

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The Goodridge/Hope tubing has a 5mm outer diameter and 2mm inner dimeter. Normal magura hosing is 2.5mm inner diameter.

It's frustrating that we never get a full spec for bike components from vendors. It's only now that riders are setting up shops etc that we're starting to get the dimensions and full specs that empower us to make buying decisions based on facts rather than marketing (Y)

EDIT: Just seen the full info on the Hope hosing from Tartybikes from the link posted whilst writing this - Good to see you can get hold of the cross over fittings and that the braided outer has a transparent plastic coating to address the paint rubbing issue ;)

Steve

[kerley]

do you think it would be advisable to bleed the braidied magura hosing with water?

wats the advantages/disadvantages of this?

[James_Porter]

The Goodridge/Hope tubing has a 5mm outer diameter and 2mm inner dimeter. Normal magura hosing is 2.5mm inner diameter.

It's frustrating that we never get a full spec for bike components from vendors. It's only now that riders are setting up shops etc that we're starting to get the dimensions and full specs that empower us to make buying decisions based on facts rather than marketing (Y)

Steve

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ah right, im with you now, i thought it would be 2.5.

is the maggie braided hose 2.5? because that seems to run just as fast as the black maggie plastic hose with mineral oil.

[Mark W]

Braided hosing makes sense for DHers or other fast riders, but for trials it's a bit pointless. As far as I could tell, the only real performance advantage was that if you're firing down the site of Les Gets and need to haul on the anchors, the braided hosing means that when you brake, the force from the braking goes purely into moving the pads because it's not splaying out the hosing (same way that you get a brake booster to use with a V-brake or Magura so you remove any additional flex). I guess this too means that it's more resistant to getting snagged and crimped like Magura hosing, but that's about it.

For trials, I don't really see any need for it. Because of the brake set-ups being run by most riders, they're good enough as it is. I mean HS33's are almost definitely the choice of about 80-90% of riders (if not more?), and with a booster and a good bleed they feel solid anyway. A lot of riders are running front discs now, but even with a front Magura the hose is so short that there's less hosing to flex in a way, and also it just doesn't have the same sort of braking problems associated with braking at speed (like in a DH race).

So yeah, £38 for a brake hose or £3-5 for standard hosing. I *think* I know which one I'd go for...

[Heatsink]

do you think it would be advisable to bleed the braidied magura hosing with water?

wats the advantages/disadvantages of this?

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I've never run my magura with water, but loads of people do and swear by it ;)

Advantages:

1. Very responsive "snappy" brake

2. Water is free, magura oil is a rip off

If you use a small amount of anti-freeze/car screen wash (see the container for some idea of quantities) then you can make sure it won't freeze at the normal 0 deg C, so that you don't have the problems of the water expanding on freezing- jams brakes on at best, cracks fittings at worst.

The only thing to point out is that any anti-freeze/screen wash you may add could affect the seals in the long run. But then again you could say that there are so many people who have run this set-up for years without problems, that this is probabily not an issue (Y)

Steve

[Mark W]

*touch wood* From now in, it's getting warmer and warmer so it shouldn't be much of an issue. My brake froze twice overnight, and three times whilst I was riding home (only the front, 'cos it's got a smaller volume and was more affected by the windchill as I sprinted home), but all that happened was that the lever refused to move. Once it froze so badly the brake locked on, but that was it.

As a man of experimentation with Maguras Steve, I really recommend trying out water. Like you say - it IS free, and it's well worth doing. I was a "Just use oil, it's what it's designed for person" (in the same way that I used to be a "Maguras are shite, my Avid's better" person ;)), and the change to water has made my brake a kajillion times better.

Mark

P.S. Sending the literature tonight (Y)

[Michael Hardman]

Someone awas asking whether you can run a maggie with goodridge hosing on water.

Id like to know this aswell becasue it should solve the shitty unresponsive feeling you get from running maggie fluid in a goodridge hose, seeing as its only designed for dot4/5

I would be willing to try it but I have just had a friend sort my rear brake out and it took a long time to bleed it so it got a solid feel on water so im reluctant to take it all apart and loss the feel in order to experiment.

[george_seamons]

Several people have said how the reduced internal diameter affects the performance of the brake. I don't see how this is the case?

Magura HS33's are a sealed system, therefore the size of the tubing should not make a difference?

I was always under the assumption that it was the master and slave piston diameters that affected the power transfer, not the linking between them.

[AdamR28]

Braided hosing makes sense for DHers or other fast riders, but for trials it's a bit pointless.  As far as I could tell, the only real performance advantage was that if you're firing down the site of Les Gets and need to haul on the anchors, the braided hosing means that when you brake, the force from the braking goes purely into moving the pads because it's not splaying out the hosing (same way that you get a brake booster to use with a V-brake or Magura so you remove any additional flex). 

I guess this too means that it's more resistant to getting snagged and crimped like Magura hosing, but that's about it.

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That first bit doesnt really apply - theres more squidge from the pads than the hose.

The last bit is where it applies to trials riders - I've broken hoses a couple of times, its very annoying. Imagine if you fell off, and landed on your hose in the first section of a comp. £10 entry fee, £15 travelling expenses down the pan... braided hose would have just shrugged it off, and you could ride on, and they've pretty much paid for themselves in one ride.

The old £3-5 Vs £35 debate is a good one too. However, I reckon braided would last 10 times longer. I've had around 3 different plastic hoses in the space of 3 years, through breaking them. I shall be investing in a set of Hope hose when I have some spare money ;)

As for the bore/viscous drag etc... everyone should run water anyway (Y) (which isn't far off the viscosity of Dot fluid - which is what these hoses are primarily designed for anyway). Like Steve said - bit of anti-free works wonders.

[James_Porter]

Several people have said how the reduced internal diameter affects the performance of the brake. I don't see how this is the case?

Magura HS33's are a sealed system, therefore the size of the tubing should not make a difference?

I was always under the assumption that it was the master and slave piston diameters that affected the power transfer, not the linking between them.

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it isnt really the power that gets affected, that is fine with goodridge. its how slow it feels, ie when you pull the lever in with goodridge and then let it go the blade will go back but the piston bit in the lever is still moving back so you get play in your lever for a second and this doesnt feel to good, but you do get used to it.

if you get me, hard to explain... :">

[Heatsink]

Several people have said how the reduced internal diameter affects the performance of the brake. I don't see how this is the case?

Magura HS33's are a sealed system, therefore the size of the tubing should not make a difference?

I was always under the assumption that it was the master and slave piston diameters that affected the power transfer, not the linking between them.

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Well, the important thing which governs the "sluggish" feel thing is the smallest diameter in the system. Imagine that you were to hang the maggie lever on a coat hanger, with the bleed port open on the lever and on the slave which is hanging below. If you pour water through the lever bleed port so it runs through the body of the lever, the fittings, and the hose into the slave and out the bleed port the water is being carried by a force, it's own weight. If you replaced the hose with some 2mm diameter stuff, then the flow rate would be less. You could measure this scientifically to confirm this in the following way: Work out the flow rate by letting the water fall into a bucket, and then weigh it before and after since 1g = 1 cm^3 of water. This divided by the time you ran the test gives you the flow rate in cm^3/secs.

My magura is in pieces at the moment, and the smallest diameter seems to be 2.5mm from my digital calipers. So introducing the tubing of narrower diameter would indeed create a relative constriction.

I totally agree about the hosing resistance to squigging comment. Adam is right about the sponge being in the pads, and it's back to the old chestnut of springs in series to see that it does bugger all to mess around with changing the stiffness of the stiffer components when you have something many times softer in the path.

Playing around with this springs in series equation is the same thing which proves that bike mags are talking tosh when they talk about the "feel" of a frame, since the tyres in the system (changing the inflation levels) hides any feedback from the road coming through the handlebars. Another example of marketing replacing facts!

Steve

[george_seamons]

Yeah, I get what you're saying Steve. I just thought that because the system was sealed, it wouldn't matter if the hose had an internal diamter of 2 or 20mm.

Although, looking at it now...I'm guessing that friction probably has something to do with it too?

[Heatsink]

You're right George, there also will be a frictional resistance per unit length of the fluid tubing, and ther is also friction resistance at any sudden change in dimeter ("pressure loss" is what is talked about when you have a look at the maths) So another test that someone could do to investigation this is to compare two different length of the same diameter tube, pouring water in the top as described before and measuring the flow rate.

Steve

Yeah, I get what you're saying Steve. I just thought that because the system was sealed, it wouldn't matter if the hose had an internal diamter of 2 or 20mm.

Although, looking at it now...I'm guessing that friction probably has something to do with it too?

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