Anjow Posted April 29, 2007 Report Share Posted April 29, 2007 I posted the other day about my bike never being 'happy', and how it ends up with the cones too loose and whatnot. My problems are with my rear wheel.Today my dad came round to visit and he had a look at my bike - he's not a bike expert, but he has more common mechanical sense than me. Anyhow, he told me my axle is bent - I looked and it is. He also said that this is what's causing my cones to loosen off and whatnot. He said to get a new axle. Now, I don't know anything about bike axles, never dealt with them before.What axle do I need? Do all trials axles work with all trials hubs? I don't know what hub I have, it's an Onza one and I'll take pictures if you want.Also, how does one change the axle? I doubt it's something I'll be doing for a while yet as I don't have the confidence or the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted April 29, 2007 Report Share Posted April 29, 2007 its alot easier to just buy a new hub reallyprobably cheaper toolink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted April 29, 2007 Report Share Posted April 29, 2007 It would be way to much hassle for you to replace the axel just buy a new hub, and seeing as your going to buy a new one upgrade it at the same time to a better hub. If the wheel is still rideable though even with a bent axle i would just carry on doing till it falls apart and then get a new hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjow Posted April 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2007 I don't know the mechanics of changing an axle, but I know that changing a hub is far beyond my abilities at the moment, and I certainly don't have time for it. I guess I'll just have to continue riding on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted April 29, 2007 Report Share Posted April 29, 2007 It would be a total pain in the arse to replace the hub - and rebuild the wheel - just to get a new axle, what are you guys on about? The first thing to do would be to phone Onza (Supercycles) up and tell them. They might just be nice and sort you out with a new axle since the bike isn't exactly old. At the very least they ought to be able to sell you one. If it's just a fairly cheap non-sealed hub then the axle is probably just a 110mm x M10 threaded bar? You might be able to get one from any old bike shop. I might be talking rubbish here because I've not dealt with non-sealed hubs in a long time, but it's common sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjow Posted April 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2007 Do you get 'better' axels? Would it be better to get a 'special' one? Would that make it less likely to bend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paolo Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 (edited) "10mm solid steel axle gives excellent clamping force and strength."You can't really get better then that...Anyhow, changing the axle is pretty straight forward... I'm pretty sure it's the same on a fixed hub as on a cassette hub :Basically, take everything out and put it back, hahahaTake this image as a reference, because it apparently is the same as your hub...0-I don't know if this step is necessary, but if you can't remove the shiny unflanged bolt (see 1- for more detail as to what it is) on the drive side, you'll have to remove the cog, and I don't know how that works on a mod...1-Remove the two unflaged silver bolts (the flanged ones or the one further out that aren't tight in the picture should be removed when taking the wheel out of the frame.), You'll probably have to do this with a wrench on both side....2-Using the proper sized cone wrench or vice-grips, remove one of the cones, you might have to put one on each side since it's probably just gonna spin. Adjustable wrenches and wrenches could work to, but depending on the design, you could strip the cones3-You should now see the bearing or half of them actually, take them out and onto a rag, that should already be on the ground where you are working as they have a tendency to fly off.4-Take the axle out of the hub by the side that still has it's cone.5-Take the bearings out on that side to.6-Put the axle on a table vice or in a vice grip, grabbing it on it's middle so you don't damage useful threads, if you axle is threaded from side to side, that is, Using one of the instruments in #2, take the other cone out.7-Put one of the cones at about the same place that one would have been on your old axle, in your new axle.8-Clean you bearings with your rag, put crap loads of lube in the bearing cavity on one of the sides of the hub.9-Put the axle with the cone on the side that has the bearings (the cone in the bearings...)10-Put the bearing on the other side of the hub like in #811-Bolt the other cone on and tight it moderately, well loosely, the axle should spin easily.12-I don't know about this step, but put the cog in if you removed it earlier.13-Bolt the shiny bolts back in.14-Put wheel in.15-Ride and repeat.Pretty sure that sums it...As to why it bent, maybe you rode with a slack wheel. By the sound of it, you rode with the cones loose wish probably bent your axle. Also in the first place, it might not have been a bent axle that triggered the cone slacking but the slack cones that triggered the axle's bending... Edited April 30, 2007 by paolo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenhopper Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 (edited) It's certainly worth mentioning that if you've been riding on loosened cones & it's been enough to allow your axle to bend then it's logical to assume the ball bearings will be fairly ovalised if not cracked & completely knackered. You should have no problems picking up the right sized ball bearings loose from your Local Bike Shop. They shouldn't cost more than a quid or two either. Properly round bearings place alot less stress on the hub & are less likely to rattle the whole thing loose again.Make sure you've got all the tools you need for the job before you start! No point doing it if you can't tighten it all up properly. The correct cone spanner is a must-have for this job.edit: You'll have to lock each of the cones against the lock nut beside it to stop un-wanted loosening.If it all sounds a bit intimidating it probably wouldn't cost the earth to have a bike shop do it.Or at least it couldn't hurt to ask!` Edited April 30, 2007 by darrenhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 LMAO at the first few posts. Yeah, replace the hub.... thats soooo much eaiser than replacing an axle Replacing an axle is easy peasy, undo the bolts... slide it out, watch all the bearings fall out, screw the cones and bolt into place on the new axle, slide it in, put new bearings in, tighten it up. Its literally a 2 minute task... and thats only if you have to run off and get some sticky tape after slicing your hand on a spanner or something.Its a piece of cake . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 i feel it is. if you can build wheels in 20-30mins and not have to have even seen the inside of a hub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 i feel it is. if you can build wheels in 20-30mins and not have to have even seen the inside of a hubHow many people are there who can build wheels but haven't looked inside a hub? I'd guess, in this country, zero. Not only is replacing an axle much quicker, it would also be much cheaper. Seriously, a bit of common sense would go down well before you start suggesting stupid things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjow Posted April 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 I think I will get a bike shop to do it. The only reason that didn't occur to me immediately is because I'm new to trials and I didn't know whether normal bike shops would know how to 'deal with' trials bikes - if they might set them up wrong or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash-Kennard Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 well i havent, and i build wheels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broomer Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Not sure on the price of axles, but when i broke a mates axle on his onza, i bought a new axle which came with a bearing kit for about £20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 I think I will get a bike shop to do it. The only reason that didn't occur to me immediately is because I'm new to trials and I didn't know whether normal bike shops would know how to 'deal with' trials bikes - if they might set them up wrong or something.Yeah, those hubs are the same design as on probably 90% of bikes (from cheap argos bikes to road, XC etc - It's only when you start paying a lot more that you get sealed bearing hubs) so bike shops will know what to do.Not sure on the price of axles, but when i broke a mates axle on his onza, i bought a new axle which came with a bearing kit for about £20.That seems pretty steep to me, it's only a metal bar and some little balls. But I suppose if it gets it all working again it's worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 How many people are there who can build wheels but haven't looked inside a hub? I'd guess, in this country, zero. Not only is replacing an axle much quicker, it would also be much cheaper. Seriously, a bit of common sense would go down well before you start suggesting stupid things.Yeah but the lad who we are posting about doesnt really have any mechanicing skills and had to post to find out how to set up a maggie (no offence ment) which i thought was common sense. Chances are the guy cant back hop yet and he has still managed to bend the axel therefore whats the point of him getting another to kill it again. Buying a hub in one respect would be easier for him as he would have to take it a shop which may not be the cheapest but deffinately the easiest seeing as he doesn't have many mechanicing skills and doesnt need any if the shop does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinJI Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 (edited) On that hub basically any 10mm axle meant for a 110mm spaced rear hub will work, so I'd say your best bet if you want a stronger axle is to go to a BMX shop, and see if they have any nice tough 10mm BMX axles. Some of the ones in our local bike shop even come with a lifetime guarantee against bending, that they genuinely go through with if you do bend it, think there only about 12 quid too. The other option is a standard cro-moly axle similar to the one it will have come with, should be about 7.95 or something, and they usually come with a full set of new cones on them too. .The fitting shouldn't really cost anymore than about a fiver, like said above, if you know what your doing then changing an axle doesn't need to take any longer than a couple of minutes.However, I know from friends experience that those particular onza hubs do have problems with the bearing cup collapsing inside them (there was a post on here a few days ago called something like 'why not to buy an onza hub'), so in the long run you may be better off with a new sealed bearing hub, this way your cones will never come loose again and you save your 7 or 8 quid in the end.Oh yeah, if you do want new bearings and your not gunna get the shop to fit everything, then you'll want 18 quarter inch bearings, 9 for each side. If I remember right most bike shops will have them in little bags of 9 for 50p or a quid. Edited April 30, 2007 by Dont you Just Hate it When... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broomer Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Yeah, those hubs are the same design as on probably 90% of bikes (from cheap argos bikes to road, XC etc - It's only when you start paying a lot more that you get sealed bearing hubs) so bike shops will know what to do.That seems pretty steep to me, it's only a metal bar and some little balls. But I suppose if it gets it all working again it's worth it it was steep but i was obliged to pay it as i broke my friends bike, im definately sure it was 20 pounds for the axle and two sealed cartridge bearings from saddles and paddels in exeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinJI Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 it was steep but i was obliged to pay it as i broke my friends bike, im definately sure it was 20 pounds for the axle and two sealed cartridge bearings from saddles and paddels in exeter.That's a machined aluminium axle though Liam, and a set of Jap/Chinese cartridge bearings, this guys looking at any old 10mm steel axle and 18 quarter inch ball bearings, shouldn't really come to over a tenner for standard quality stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broomer Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 That's a machined aluminium axle though Liam, and a set of Jap/Chinese cartridge bearings, this guys looking at any old 10mm steel axle and 18 quarter inch ball bearings, shouldn't really come to over a tenner for standard quality stuff.I know, but just informing tom that trials parts are in fact "steep"considering he replaced it, rode it a couple of times, then i rode it and broke it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinJI Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Hairy muff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 i feel it is. if you can build wheels in 20-30mins and not have to have even seen the inside of a hubBut changing a loose bearing axle is a LOT easier and quicker. It takes 2-3 minutes MAX. I also agree with "dont yo...", go to a bmx shop, get a decent quality axle and you'll be right as rain for a while. By the time it breaks again you'll have improved so much you'll need to be looking at something stronger anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjow Posted April 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 had to post to find out how to set up a maggie (no offence ment) which i thought was common sense.I knew how to set one up already, I had done so when the bike came in the post. I just wanted to see if there was a trick to doing it that would make it fast and effective.Chances are the guy cant back hop yetI can. I could before the bike arrived. I could on my XC bike ~7 years ago.as he doesn't have many mechanicing skills and doesnt need any if the shop does it.I have some mechanical skills. I just don't have a) confidence, or b) time because I've a 15,000 word dissertation and a program to finish for this friday. Then I've got eleventy other bits of software to write and be assessed on, two presentations and two exams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 I knew how to set one up already, I had done so when the bike came in the post. I just wanted to see if there was a trick to doing it that would make it fast and effective.I can. I could before the bike arrived. I could on my XC bike ~7 years ago.I have some mechanical skills. I just don't have a) confidence, or b) time because I've a 15,000 word dissertation and a program to finish for this friday. Then I've got eleventy other bits of software to write and be assessed on, two presentations and two exams.arh ok just sounded from previous topics that you was a total noobie to trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjow Posted April 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 (edited) I am, but those are just things I'd expect a newbie with common sense to be able to do I'm not a newbie to bikes in general, I have just had many years out. And back when I used to ride I never 'got my hands dirty', mechanically speaking. Edited April 30, 2007 by Anjow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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