Helping Me With My A-level Project

[Maximus]

Hi people,

I’m doing a new A-level project this year and i want it wrapped up as soon as. Basically i had thought of a few ideas to do, but this was best for me. I wish to design a new small compact Co2 pump with the possibility of it inflating a standard 26" tyre to a maximum pressure of 110psi twice, so that’s more if you run low pressures. To help me with my project i wish for you to help me with a quick poll, to help me progress to a product specification.

I think most people don’t like flats when going for a ride, as it is unstructured and breaks up the activity you enjoy most off all which is riding, I am talking about mobile flats, the ones you have pump up with a hand pump. My take on it is, you don’t usually get more than one puncture at a time per ride, so one pump per ride, so would a smaller, faser pump be better.

I would appreciate any input you have regarding bike pumps and your experience, or any ideas you have regarding my project. So what do you like / hate about pumping you tyres up with a hand pump?

So just to recap i hope to make a small, light, compact co2 pump. The co2 cartridges i intend to use are 12g and will at lest inflate two 26" tires to 110psi.

- So what do you like / hate about pumping you tyres up with a hand pump? Discuss?

- Would a Co2 pump be better

- I’m thinking that it should be no bigger than 150mm by 35mm? Opinions.

I was thinking something allong the lines of this,

link

Please can people refrain from going off topic, or causing arguments, as this is my project.

Thank you, an I hope to here from some of your input, or ideas.

Many thanks, max

Edited September 17, 2008 by Maximus

[psycholist]

Which age range suits you best?

Not the same as asking what age you are . There should be a 17 to 19 and a half option for me to correctly answer that one in the best

traditions ...

If you want something novel, a rechargeable canister would be an interesting idea - use a shock pump to take an empty cartridge to 300PSI (20 Atmospheres) before you go out cycling, so you can inflate your tyres quickly while you're out. To get the tyre to 30PSI you'll have to have a 300PSI reservoir with a tenth of the volume of the tyre though, which definitely isn't compact .

The important thing for this device to be used in trials is toughness - part of the reason I'm slow to use compressed gas cartridges is the (miniscule) risk of explosion if you do land wrong on one (It'd have to be very wrong, but given it'd potentially be in my pocket, the shrapnel/freezing from the sudden expansion could be nasty). Also I don't puncture very often on any bike (XC or trials) I use, so this would be sitting unused for a long time between uses, so sealing the elements out is very important.

[Simpson]

I will leave out some of the odd things about your questionaire, like, whats the real difference between impact resistant an strong?

Also you haven't factored in cost anywhere... i would never think of spending over like 2quid on a hand pump, over X ammount on a CO2 re-filler which only does 2 tyres

[Ross McArthur]

A levels?? Minnets aye??

[Maximus]

I will leave out some of the odd things about your questionaire, like, whats the real difference between impact resistant an strong?

Also you haven't factored in cost anywhere... i would never think of spending over like 2quid on a hand pump, over X ammount on a CO2 re-filler which only does 2 tyres

Ok, point taken in your aspect, if you were a XC racer and lost about 60 seconds on a variable that you could change, you would have a measure like this in place to minimise the effect of pumping up you tires. maby i did not explane myself well, im sorry for that.

I have put this questionnaire out elsewhere, on other cycling forums, before i did this on here it was clear to me that the niche market was XC racing mostly, and the rich and lazy. The ideal was to save wasteful time and energy pumping the tube up in race conditions. So that primarily is its market. But i thought i better ask the trials market too, just to get your opinion, it crossed my mind that it could also be applied considering peoples attitude to get things done now, take the easy option view when out and about, so i flagged it up on here.

In the Project, I don’t have to mechanically make the product work, I have to construct a prototype model with regards to the mechanics and styling. This is a graphics products project, not engineering although i wish it was.

.....Constructed company logo for product....

smaller res

opinions???

Thanks for your input. (Remember input only)

Keep more view’s coming.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Maximus

[16 years later]

Well to be honest when I’m riding all day 45 seconds to pump up a tyre is not long (fair enough if your in a race)

and I would only want about 20-25 psi in each tyre so not for me (but i did say in the poll I would like one)

What I think would be better is, someone i know has a hand pump that has a digital display and you type in what psi you want (with a button +or -)

and then you put in on the valve and it pumps it up the psi said. Proper job

That would be better for trials if you ask me and you just have to charge up the batteries not have to buy new Co2 canister

and i just have a big hand pump for at home and a small hand pump for when riding

Good luck with it

[Ash-Kennard]

why not design some decent forks instead?

[Maximus]

Well to be honest when I’m riding all day 45 seconds to pump up a tyre is not long (fair enough if your in a race)

and I would only want about 20-25 psi in each tyre so not for me (but i did say in the poll I would like one)

What I think would be better is, someone i know has a hand pump that has a digital display and you type in what psi you want (with a button +or -)

and then you put in on the valve and it pumps it up the psi said. Proper job

That would be better for trials if you ask me and you just have to charge up the batteries not have to buy new Co2 canister

and i just have a big hand pump for at home and a small hand pump for when riding

Good luck with it

Yeah a digital display would be a very good idea, thanks allot buddy. So you can set the specific psi to your best needs.

This is just what im after, real rider’s opinions.

why not design some decent forks instead?

lol, Kennard. A, i could of done but i probably wouldn’t be able to get away with it as its a graphics project, not engineering, maybe if i made the forks look really funky.

B, theres no more mig welder in collage now , i would have to make steel ones and then braze them up and that would be too heavy for you lot.

So kennard any input into my graphics or co2 inflation devise, I was thinking adding a 'wind' effect to the injection text.

Many thanks max, ideas Appreciated

[Luke Rainbird]

Coursework advice: Use the word "pressure"

[psycholist]

Yellow on white isn't a good colour choice for the logo as there isn't enough contrast between the colours to allow them to be easily read. Unless you're looking for very understated graphics or your background colour is dark rather than light something with higher contrast would be better.

[16 years later]

Yeah a digital display would be a very good idea, thanks allot buddy. So you can set the specific psi to your best needs.

This is just what im after, real rider’s opinions.

Many thanks max, ideas Appreciated

Yeah the one my friend has, has a digital display and then two buttons one for plus psi and one for minus psi

Then it would only put in 23 or 35 or 112 exactly what you want.

I don’t think his had a canister, I think it was electric and it powers a small pump or something, that then pumps up the tyre. No need to buy a Co2 canister just charge up the batteries that power the pump. Could be an option.

Hope im helping

Thanks and good luck

Bruce

[2sixstreet]

Have you tested the current systems on the market? I don't want to dissuade you from your project but it has been done and the current products out there work well. I used to race XC back in the day when UST (and latex) was becoming popular and affordable but there was still a large majority of people (including me) who used lightweight tubes and tyres. UST just wasn't reliable enough. It was also the time when cartridges were developing. I can tell you now that a 12g canister will not inflate a standard 26" tube/tyre to 110psi twice. In a road bike tyre you'd be lucky to get 70-80psi out of a single one. It would get you home ok but you wouldnt be time trialling along the way.

I can't honestly see a market for trials riders for CO2. It's convenient but it's not a cheap alternative to carrying a pump and like what has been said, who cares if you're out on a ride and it takes you 5min to fix a flat. Your mates are going to wait for you, in a cross country race they won't. On the rare occasion I flatted I could get going again in under 90 seconds. In that time you could lose about 8 places. Also carrying the small extra weight of a mini pump around all day as opposed to a CO2 canister and inflater is hardly a strain.

If you go ahead with the project I would market it squarely to those that have a need for light weight and are able to use it quickly as well as see the cost benefit. I'd investigate having a protection around the canister from a marketing point of view too - they get extremely cold. I used to use cut off gloves so could hang onto them ok and it was quite refreshing on a hot summers day (in Aus). First time users usually get a bit of frost bite or stuck to the canister. Some companies have come up with a foam covering, others use a protective plastic cover.

You could also look into threaded and non-threaded cartridge heads. Base your pros and cons around leakage when piercing before use. A threaded system could be more secure than one which you need to mechanically close onto to break the seal. Maybe look at a canister with a small valve for added security and re-use?

Something you may not realise is that CO2 by nature will 'leak' from a perfectly good tube much faster than atmospheric air. When convenient after using CO2 you need to fully deflate your tube and pump it back up normally. I'll let you do your own research as to why.

I'm a bit out of touch with XC racing now but with the numerous 'no-tubes' and UST systems around it's a pretty safe bet that if you won't flat and if you do it's not going to be fixed with CO2 (or patches and glue). I believe that you can now take service on each lap too. Of course theres a market for the people who run conventional tube/tyre combo and is convenient for weekend warriors.

Good luck with the project, I hope you come up with something innovative.

For the person who suggested carrying around 300psi, I doubt it would pass whatever laws there are for products to enter the market.

[N.Wood]

Can I just ask what you're gonna offer to us that isn't already there?

In its most simple form, you just need a canister with a valve on the end. This is also the cheapest, easiest to use, lightest and most compact. This can b found here.

The only thing lacking is a digital or otherwise pressure readout.

[davey1991]

Product design i guess? and i like the company logo looks nice not to overdone and not so underdone you dont notice it .

[psycholist]

For the person who suggested carrying around 300psi, I doubt it would pass whatever laws there are for products to enter the market.

If the figures given for current CO2 cartridges are correct, they hold something in the region of 6000 PSI - based on the information here.

If the cartridge has a volume of 20 cm^3 and holds 16g of gas (Molar volume 22.4 litres, molar mass of C02 is about 44g/mol), it's internal pressure will be just under 6000 PSI - I'm pretty sure the gas will be liquid at this pressure, so the pressure won't be this high in reality, but it will contain an equivalent amount of energy. The reason it can be gotten away with at all is that the cartridges are built with a massive factor of safety...

[Maximus]

Have you tested the current systems on the market? I don't want to dissuade you from your project but it has been done and the current products out there work well. I used to race XC back in the day when UST (and latex) was becoming popular and affordable but there was still a large majority of people (including me) who used lightweight tubes and tyres. UST just wasn't reliable enough. It was also the time when cartridges were developing. I can tell you now that a 12g canister will not inflate a standard 26" tube/tyre to 110psi twice. In a road bike tyre you'd be lucky to get 70-80psi out of a single one. It would get you home ok but you wouldnt be time trialling along the way.

I can't honestly see a market for trials riders for CO2. It's convenient but it's not a cheap alternative to carrying a pump and like what has been said, who cares if you're out on a ride and it takes you 5min to fix a flat. Your mates are going to wait for you, in a cross country race they won't. On the rare occasion I flatted I could get going again in under 90 seconds. In that time you could lose about 8 places. Also carrying the small extra weight of a mini pump around all day as opposed to a CO2 canister and inflater is hardly a strain.

If you go ahead with the project I would market it squarely to those that have a need for light weight and are able to use it quickly as well as see the cost benefit. I'd investigate having a protection around the canister from a marketing point of view too - they get extremely cold. I used to use cut off gloves so could hang onto them ok and it was quite refreshing on a hot summers day (in Aus). First time users usually get a bit of frost bite or stuck to the canister. Some companies have come up with a foam covering, others use a protective plastic cover.

You could also look into threaded and non-threaded cartridge heads. Base your pros and cons around leakage when piercing before use. A threaded system could be more secure than one which you need to mechanically close onto to break the seal. Maybe look at a canister with a small valve for added security and re-use?

Something you may not realise is that CO2 by nature will 'leak' from a perfectly good tube much faster than atmospheric air. When convenient after using CO2 you need to fully deflate your tube and pump it back up normally. I'll let you do your own research as to why.

I'm a bit out of touch with XC racing now but with the numerous 'no-tubes' and UST systems around it's a pretty safe bet that if you won't flat and if you do it's not going to be fixed with CO2 (or patches and glue). I believe that you can now take service on each lap too. Of course theres a market for the people who run conventional tube/tyre combo and is convenient for weekend warriors.

Good luck with the project, I hope you come up with something innovative.

Hiya, thanks mate, yeah i don’t have to design the product to work, (although i would like to, by doing that i would be entering the engineering side, a thus would get no marks.) Once i know what people think of this, weather the cartridge is big enough, ect i can design the product graphically to accommodate that easpect in the sizing and scale of product, or find a solution. Like i said, the main market is the XC racing, and lazy and rich. i'll look into what you have posted mate thanks.

Can I just ask what you're gonna offer to us that isn't already there?

In its most simple form, you just need a canister with a valve on the end. This is also the cheapest, easiest to use, lightest and most compact. This can b found here.

The only thing lacking is a digital or otherwise pressure readout.

That may be the best for you, but not for me or my project, its a GRAPHICS one, and by doing that it would not be very graphics'y*. AS i have said i don’t have to make it work, i just need to prototype the product, and ergonomically and aesthetically Super. Put it this way some one made a new phone/IPod last year that did not work nor function out of MDF with a acrylic screen with plastic buttons completely in my opinion ergonomically wrong, but they got an A for it, and good on em, as this is a graphics project most marks are on how you have applied the graphics with materials into product prototypes, but you still need to do the same product/market research which is what im doing.

Thanks for the input, it will all go in my folder. I will all update you on my progress later today, in the mean time keep any ideas or thoughts coming.

max

[Maximus]

Bumpage,

Keep more input coming,,,

Other logos that have been produced please give opinions, good or bad there all good.

Any thoughts,

max, ps fill out Poll if you havent, read breif before.

[psycholist]

I like the syringe one ...

[Maximus]

I will leave out some of the odd things about your questionaire, like, whats the real difference between impact resistant an strong?

- Strength, is a material's ability to withstand stresses and forces, tensile/compressive/bending/shear/tensional strength.

- Impact resistance, is more like toughness and that is the ability to withstand the sudden forces and stresses of shocks or blows withstanding fracture.

yeah i think that’s it, but im sure someone will strive to get the better of me, lol

Any more opinions, a new update will come soon to show progress within the project.

max