Post A Picture Of Your Guitar

[TheCircus]

Im sure a few of you just play from tab, and listen to the music, and play like that, I dont condem that, Iv spent the last few weeks learning most of the arcitic monkeys album on bass via tab. However I think to trluey understand the music, and write your own music/claim to play and instrument properly, musical theory is key.

Discuss.

Mostly wrong.

Think of the massive amount of musicians who can shred at their instruments without any advanced knowledge of musical theory (info garnered from interviews etc) example: The Fall of Troy, Periphery.

There are probably loads of other examples on many other instruments but as I don't really know how well they know musical theory it is pretty much conjecture, so basically no you are wrong.

[Tom_]

But, if someone handed them a piece of music, they couldnt play it kinda like saying your fully capable of using the english language, because you can speak it, yet when given a piece of literature, you cannot read it.

[Hendrix]

100% of Professional musicians can read Tab and Score. I can read both, but Bass Clef isn't as good as Treble at the moment for me.

To note, tab was made for lazy musicians and magazines to make it easier to sell.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

Being able to read music does not mean knowledge of musical theory.

[TheCircus]

But, if someone handed them a piece of music, they couldnt play it kinda like saying your fully capable of using the english language, because you can speak it, yet when given a piece of literature, you cannot read it.

So? I can hand you a tab and you wont be able to play it because you simply lack the physical ability? Doesn't mean you can't play music properly.

[Hendrix]

Being able to read music does not mean knowledge of musical theory.

To be able to read it well, you usually know the theory behind it. Yes, some people are amazing at sight reading but don't know the theory, but generally you can pick a fair bit up.

So? I can hand you a tab and you wont be able to play it because you simply lack the physical ability? Doesn't mean you can't play music properly.

If you want to be a singer/songwriter/originals person, then you don't need to. If you want to be a fill in/session musician, if you can't read to a high standard you're classed as not being able to play music properly.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Hendrix

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

To be able to read it well, you usually know the theory behind it. Yes, some people are amazing at sight reading but don't know the theory, but generally you can pick a fair bit up.

Generally yeah, but reading music is for weird folk anyway.

[Hendrix]

Generally yeah, but reading music is for weird folk anyway.

So's photography.

[TheCircus]

If you want to be a singer/songwriter/originals person, then you don't need to. If you want to be a fill in/session musician, if you can't read to a high standard you're classed as not being able to play music properly.

Maybe the next road of argument lies in the question of whether a fill in/session musician is actually a musician or is just a man who can read sheet music and play it at the same time.

[Tom_]

So? I can hand you a tab and you wont be able to play it because you simply lack the physical ability? Doesn't mean you can't play music properly.

True, however with the tab, over a certain period of time, with practice I could probably play it, and so could any average dumb ass, if you hand them tab a bass and lock them in a room with the song on a CD chances are eventually they will be able to play it. But there still an average joe, who has 0 understanding of the instrument, or of music as a whole.

[TheCircus]

MUSIC IS ABOUT HOW HARD YOU WAIL YOUR SOLOS.

[NicP]

Play some jazz, on a fretless, then get back to me.

Preferably this track..

Youtube Video ->

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Edited February 22, 2009 by NicP

[Hendrix]

Maybe the next road of argument lies in the question of whether a fill in/session musician is actually a musician or is just a man who can read sheet music and play it at the same time.

You still have to put your own emphasis on what you do, looking at people like James Jamerson for example. He was hired because yeah he could read off the sheet music, but he could make up his own lines to the chord charts too. He's one of the most recorded musicians of the last 100 years..

[TheCircus]

True, however with the tab, over a certain period of time, with practice I could probably play it, and so could any average dumb ass, if you hand them tab a bass and lock them in a room with the song on a CD chances are eventually they will be able to play it. But there still an average joe, who has 0 understanding of the instrument, or of music as a whole.

Okay so on the same note I could simply lock anybody in a room with an instrument and with another undefined amount of time say they spent their time trying to recreate it they would eventually be able to play it exactly as it is played.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

I tend to judge musical ability on improvisational skill, rather than dot reading ability, sort of, nobody would think an artist that painted by numbers was very talented would they?

p.s. - this topic of conversation is pretty fail. WHO LIKES NURVANA?

[Hendrix]

I tend to judge musical ability on improvisational skill, rather than dot reading ability, sort of, nobody would think an artist that painted by numbers was very talented would they?

In classical music, you're not 'good' until you can read 16th notes at 120bpm proficiently. In rock/pop/punk/blues, it's a whole other ball game.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

In classical music, you're not 'good' until you can read 16th notes at 120bpm proficiently. In rock/pop/punk/blues, it's a whole other ball game.

Who gives a f**k about classical music on the guitar though? keep that shit orchestral.

[Tom_]

Im not saying that being able to read music/understand musical theory is what makes of breaks a musician atall, Im simply saying that I belive it is an important part of music as a whole, people get by with no theoretical knowledge, henrix used the arctic monkeys guitarist as an example, he knows f**k all other than power chords and abit of pissing around, and he is rich. I wouldnt say hes a talented musician though, more lucky...

[Hendrix]

Who gives a f**k about classical music on the guitar though? keep that shit orchestral.

Youtube Video ->

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[Dr. Nick Riviera]

I know people do play it on the guitar, and sometimes it's ok. but they are usually clasically trained musicians over guitarists.

plus you have to have a latin name or you look like a willy, ' here's stanley biggins with piano concerto in e minor, on the guitar! ' , it just doesn't really work.

[adamtrials]

Theory is of little use except for music analysis. And making you look like a genius when you say "I like your use of a neapolitan sixth there."

I have never conciously used theory in compsition, except for avoiding paralel fifths and modulating, shit like that.

Try learning perfect pitch, that sorts the men from the boys.

And Giant Steps, one of the few standards that doesn't suck donkey cock.

[Hendrix]

Theory is of little use except for music analysis. And making you look like a genius when you say "I like your use of a neapolitan sixth there."

I have never conciously used theory in compsition, except for avoiding paralel fifths and modulating, shit like that.

Try learning perfect pitch, that sorts the men from the boys.

And Giant Steps, one of the few standards that doesn't suck donkey cock.

If you're given a chord chart, but you only know how to play a Maj/Min scale over it, what kind of lines are you going to put down? If you know ALL your modes, their different positions, their relative minors etc, your lines become even better.

You can't 'learn' perfect pitch, you can learn relative pitch.

If you want to be a musician that only reads dots, then in retrospect, you don't need to know any theory what so ever. If you want to be a session musician who's going to play with Amy Winehouse, then do function gigs at the weekend as well, you need to know your theory inside out to even get a shot at the Amy Winehouse gig.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Hendrix

[adamtrials]

If you're given a chord chart, but you only know how to play a Maj/Min scale over it, what kind of lines are you going to put down? If you know ALL your modes, their different positions, their relative minors etc, your lines become even better.

You can't 'learn' perfect pitch, you can learn relative pitch.

If you want to be a musician that only reads dots, then in retrospect, you don't need to know any theory what so ever.

Talent > Modes.

You can learn perfect pitch, I have two friends that have done it and can tell whether a note is in tune, and after using the same training website a few years ago I can now sing any note and play any piece in the right key straight away, can't do the tuning though.

[Hendrix]

Talent > Modes.

You can learn perfect pitch, I have two friends that have done it and can tell whether a note is in tune, and after using the same training website a few years ago I can now sing any note and play any piece in the right key straight away, can't do the tuning though.

Slash - Has talent, but knows his models.

Pete Townsend - Has talent, but knows his modes.

Victor Wooten - Has talent, but knows his modes.

Only if you're in a very VERY lucky originals band do you get away with the not knowing of theory, the Arctic Monkeys being a prime example. Who ever wrote the songs, had a good idea of music theory, if only for the chord changes (aka - resolving 5-1, and using 1-4-5 Sequences mainly). The rest of the band just took a shot in the dark til chords came together.

I was fairly sure about the perfect pitch thing, til you said it and I googled it. I think I'll have to take a shot at it, as it's seems a pretty useful thing to have under your belt.

[JD™]

henrix used the arctic monkeys guitarist as an example, he knows f**k all other than power chords and abit of pissing around, and he is rich. I wouldnt say hes a talented musician though, more lucky...

Here's a new debate... What gives anyone the right to say someone who has made a shit load of recognisable, revered music is not talented? Is musical talent just down to technical ability? NO. Alex Turner appealed to a generation (and more) at a time when they wanted to hear the sort of music he has always been creating. To get a song into peoples heads, get it remembered and make money from it takes talent.

I can read music, but I never do - I use tabs if I'm learning something because I don't need the dots to tell me what the notes sound like. It's like choosing a horse and cart over an internal combustion engine propelled vehicle.