manuel Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 ...No the bible hasn't been disproved or proved, the same goes for the big bang theory (i think the big bang theory was the starting of creation, but it didn't just happen, some sort of god made it happen.)Difference ... Strong evidence for Big Bang - Very weak evidence (to say the least) for God and his son that come and did a load of miracles before buggering off never to be seen again ... He could of got free if he wanted to. He could of ran away before they came and got him. He knew he was going to die and how for a long time. He could of legged it then but he didnt. He stayed and died for us in one of the most horible ways.Yeah those Romans were thick as f**k - he could have literally walked away ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Yoshi Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Yeah those Romans were thick as f**k - he could have literally walked away ...Not quiet getting this are you? He knew he was going to die for a good few years before. So he could of legged it if he wanted to. But he didnt he stayed and died for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Not quiet getting this are you? He knew he was going to die for a good few years before. So he could of legged it if he wanted to. But he didnt he stayed and died for us.ah right of course - he looked into the future - sorry ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 ah right of course - he looked into the future - sorry ...Well he was the son of god/god itself. Duuuh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Aren't you overlooking the matter of resurrection here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Aren't you overlooking the matter of resurrection here?Yes resurrection of course, thats beleivable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitters Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 http://www.kongregate.com/games/AdultSwimGames/bible-fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Yoshi Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Ever heard of the Turin Shroud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Ever heard of the Turin Shroud?Faked bit of cloth with a tea stain on it, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Faked bit of cloth with a tea stain on it, right?Yh that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Yoshi Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Have no idea wat your talking about here do you?The have proved that it dates back to the time of Jesus.That that is real blood on the shroud.Plus a whole load of other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Have no idea wat your talking about here do you?The have proved that it dates back to the time of Jesus.That that is real blood on the shroud.Plus a whole load of other stuff.I think you'll find that most of the 'research' is carried out in the Vatican by the church immediately making it 100% null and void. Last I heard they'd successfully dated it to around 1200ad... so not really when the main man was (supposedly) around. To me it's one of the most laughable pieces of 'evidence' out there (if there are actually any others?).Edit:The chosen laboratories at the University of Oxford, the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, produced results indicating that the analysed portion of the shroud dated from the 13th to 14th centuries (1260–1390). Some members of scientific community had asked the Holy See to authorize more samples, including from the image-bearing part of the shroud, but this request was refused. One possible account for the reluctance is that if the image is genuine, the destruction of parts of it for purposes of dating could be considered sacrilege. The 13th and 14th century dating matched the first appearance of the shroud in church historySoooo, basically, somebody made it around that time and probably made a lot of money from a lot of gullible people passing it off as real. It. Is. A. Fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprog! Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 That is false. For one the bible is a proof that God exists along with millions of people through out the world that have seen and expreienced the power of God i.e. This girl who was at this big Christian camp (Easter Camp) sprained her ankle, And This guy prayed over it the same day and it was healed instantly and the next day she gave her life to God. I was there so I know its true.What I dont get is why people would rather believe that when they die, thats it , they are just a corpse in the ground, over believing that if they are a Christian during their life on earth and they will be rewarded with eternal happiness in heaven.I would rather have that than nothing!Is Hannah Shucksmith and I the only believers on here?I have my on and off times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beigemaster Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) Have no idea wat your talking about here do you?The have proved that it dates back to the time of Jesus.That that is real blood on the shroud.Plus a whole load of other stuff.Mate, I appreciate what your trying to do, but for the reasons that I put in the previous post you are never going to win over people with evidence like that. It wont work because they will assume it has some kind of explanation within their own belief system. It would be like trying to convince someone who sees in black and white that red is a colour by showing them a tomato. On a side note, I was under the impression that the original carbon dating for the shroud was hopelessly wrong because they sampled a bit which had been re patched after fire damage- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4210369.stmIt's not in anyway proof that it’s anything special, but it does suggest it could easily originated from the same time as Christ. Edited June 2, 2009 by beigemaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 But seeing as the Church supplied that bit and refused to provide a sample from anywhere near the actual 'image' then they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot. The evidence to prove that it's a fake is right there but they're unwilling to allow it. Could it be, heaven forbid , that they've already carried out their own carbon dating and proved to themselves that it's a fake? But maybe, just maybe they'd rather if they didn't come out and dash the hopes of billions of people worldwide by letting out that the single piece of vague proof that Jesus even existed is a forgery?... Regardless of it's true age, the 'image' on it or anything else, it first 'appeared' around the 13th Century. So, even assuming it's real, what bright spark decided that it simply must be the sheet that covered Jesus in his tomb? And precisely what evidence did he have of that fact? Completely removed from whether I'm a Christian, materialist, chauvinist or Martian, it's a complete joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beigemaster Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 I wasn't suggesting that it was the sheet that covered Christ, I was simply pointing out that its original carbon date age was inaccurate so it could well have originated around the same time. Not sure I understand how it being "appearing in the 13th Century" makes it any less valid, aren't all historic relics discovered a while after their original date or they wouldn't be relics? I may have misinterpreted what you meant though.Don't really think I would put the faith and security of the entire Christian community on one piece of cloth though, think if it was categorically disproved to be anything of any value, Christians wouldn't renounce their faith. For that reason, I completely agree that the Vatican should allow it to be studied in more detail. There is a lot more interesting and compelling evidence to suggest that Jesus (the historical figure) did exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 That shroud could easily have anyone's blood on it.Plus, he's right up there, if the vatican researched it, the research is worthless. Cigarette companies can research the effect of cigs on your health and find them to be beneficial... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Yoshi Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 There have been a huge number of experments been carried out on it since then. The vatican steped back from these experments. I will try and get a link for the dvd for it.You should really watch this vid as its very intresting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Unless they can prove it's jesus's blood, you know, by having something belonging to jesu- oh wait, bit of a problem there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middleageman Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) I think some people are seriously missing the point of the Bible here. I am also very much doubt, (as I expressed in a previous post), that they have actually sat down, read and tried to understand it?Would a person be able to discuss and argue the philosophies and intricacies of the plotlines, behind the series of the 'Star Wars' episodes, if they hadn't even watched a single film, or would they be relying on hearsay and appear rather foolish? I imagine the same people who maybe claim to believe in Darwinism and such, have not actually read any studies of his work and theories? Or maybe the 'Big Bang' theorists also? Maybe to 'follow the crowd' I hope you get my point. Most of the established Religions are based on teachings of Faith and Wisdom. I feel it would be rather naive to take the New Testament, Old Testament, Talmud, Koran, Veda, Tao-Chi-Ting or any Holy books or scriptures for there word. I haven't personaly read and understood all of these from cover to cover, so I'm can't really allow myself to berate those who have, and those who believe in them. At this point, I probably should mention, I'm presantly an open minded aethiest! Most of the posts I've read here, seem only be too ready to mock other peoples faiths and belief's, but offer no alternative conviction of thier own? I gather evolutionary process is a favourite, maybe concerning our Planet and the Universe. But do you really believe in this?The hard, cold facts I've learnt from this basic Evolutionary theory are that, as Humans, we are simply animals that are born by chance. and all we do, is learn enough to survive till an age where we can procreate, raise our young and die. Do you believe that is all 'Life' holds for us? Then why do you contemplate your own existence?MAM. Edited June 2, 2009 by middleageman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 as Humans, we are simply animals that are born by chance. and all we do, is learn enough to survive till an age where we can procreate, raise our young and die. Do you believe that is all 'Life' holds for us?Yup. The only difference between humans and monkeys is that we've evolved to become mildly intelligent so we can communicate what's going on in our heads with each other. It's another of those self obsessed human beliefs that we're so special that there must be a meaning to life and our existence. 42.Either that or Xenu the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of his people to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. We are all therefore thetans, the remaining souls of the dead. Seems about as believable as Christianity to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Foamoi Refresher Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 fo all those who doubt and want maybe a different light on the answer of jesus, and who he possibly was etc. watch this, it is very long, 29parts split into 11minutes each. some episodes are better than others. but it gives a different impression on how jesus probably did exist, not necessarily in the way the new testament says he did. gives different ideas about who jesus was, and a great story about moses, and the egyptians which seems alot more plausable. jesus was possibly the original creator of everything we know now in the way that shortly after his death a new religeon was formed, along with powers like the illuminati, masons, the vatican, london inner city, and america. its very interesting to watch. getting back to topic anyway, we will never know what is right or wrong, i have been on both sides of the argument as also being bought up in a roman catholic household, went to catholic school etc, chruch all that. and one of the biggest things in my life was being able to break away from all religion. with most of my family and there freinds all looking down on me and trying to convince me i was doing the wrong thing. and at first i just wanted to get away for the sake of it, but then i started to read a little more and looked at other alternatives and realised it was all bollocks to me. i dont need a religion to be happy, or it to guide my life through the ten comandments. with a little common sense you can figure out what is right and wrong. and what i fugured out, is we are all debt slaves. this is such a massive topic to talk about. because it is linked to everything that we know. and even looking back at history, we will never be able to say wether god exists or not, or that america actually blew up its own buildings to get its citizens to support a massive war. or that ultimatley we waste our lives in the created distortions to make us feel individual, to have to compete with one another. everything sucks really.the only thing in my eyes that we could possibly find out, is that god does not exist. and the one way to find that out, is have the vatican admit its all a hoax. we will never really be able to find out if the big bang theory is correct or not. unless one day we can travel back in time, into a space ship that impenitrable. but even thats impossible, because you would have to travel into some space that hasnt been created yet? through the 'big bang' or by 'god'all in all, very confusing post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 At this point, I probably should mention, I'm presantly an open minded aethiest! lolzMost of the posts I've read here, seem only be too ready to mock other peoples faiths and belief's, but offer no alternative conviction of thier own? I gather evolutionary process is a favourite, maybe concerning our Planet and the Universe. But do you really believe in this?The hard, cold facts I've learnt from this basic Evolutionary theory are that, as Humans, we are simply animals that are born by chance. and all we do, is learn enough to survive till an age where we can procreate, raise our young and die. Do you believe that is all 'Life' holds for us?Yes exactly, what evidence is there to suggest otherwise ? I guess I just dont understand why people do believe in organised religion ... I mean the evidence is all suuuuuper flimsy and a bit fantastical at times, and evendence to support evolution, big bangs etc is strong ... In other parts of life people are fairly logical and rational, so why for example do people believe in a man (son o god) who could do magic who got nailed to a cross 2000 ish years ago ? If some guy on facebook said he was the second coming and that he had done some miracles (maybe he posted them on youtube...) would you believe it just like that - no you'd think he had faked it or was crazy... so why for religion is disbelief suspended ?we will never really be able to find out if the big bang theory is correct or not. unless one day we can travel back in time, into a space ship that impenitrable. but even thats impossible, because you would have to travel into some space that hasnt been created yet? through the 'big bang' or by 'god'Telescopes ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitters Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Oh, back to post #1, did anyone find out if the OP got in touch with a hardcore christian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Knowing what Dave usually posts on here he was probably wanting to ask them whether the bible explains which way pedals screw into the cranks on his Monty. That or he's already forgotten what he wanted to ask...Liking the telescopes point Rowan . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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