monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Right I'm getting bored of saying this now, I've said it was not the colour I chose, I do listen to everyone. Saying I and Onza Ignore everyone is a little rude and just plain offensive. I could name several occasions where I have listened to TF but how can I get the colour right when the ideas are so varied? I mean, Everyone asks for a disc tab, So we fit one. Everyone says its too heavy, I lighten it.Please explain why some people like the colour?( let me guess they have no taste like me) Shall I send all of the frames back? WHAT DO YOU WANT? WHAT DO I DO TO PLEASE YOU?If it's not the colour you chose I hope you've negotiated a discount with the factory? Disc tabs? Excellent- everyone wanted them and you included them- doesn't make sense not to considering it's the way most frames are going these days, especially the top end compy frames.Weight- makes sense really. You just have to look at the comparable frames available on tarty at the moment to see that weight is a big thing and getting a nice balance of strength:weight is a basic requirement.Colour wise, I think as I said before, I'm guessing in person the frame alone probably looks ok, and the one with black rims built up by Captain Scarlet doesn't look too bad but again the graphics could've been designed to work with the lines of the frame a lot better (along the lines of what Seddon's done but with Onza logo's or whatever) and the pictures in the first post make it look like cheap and tacky, as a lot of people have said. I'm not alone in my opinion I'm just the one who's keeping at you trying to get a reasonable response.I'm starting (!) to get rude because I'm repeating myself over and over (along with comments from a lot of others in this thread (and that Cleaner)) and at no point have you or Mike taken a step back and said 'ok, maybe next time we'll make sure the frames come back the colour we ordered/we'll be having words with the factory/maybe we could spend a bit more time on graphics' Mike just keeps telling me Onza designed every frame in the world and you didn't even mention it wasn't the colour it was supposed to be until halfway through the thread...I've tried to be fairly constructive but this doesn't seem to have been taken on board in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran@ZSClothing Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 The colour is nice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borat Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Sorry to be jacking the thread.But in my opinion, maybe a poll on what colour.I think onza should try this with their next frame, just to try it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 The colour is nice!!Damn you! Wrong answer .But in my opinion, maybe a poll on what colour.I think onza should try this with their next frame, just to try it out!It worked for Christmas number 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullapool Trials Rider Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Damn you! Wrong answer .Calm down monkey man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh barker Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 well i think the colour doesnt look a miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Gibbs Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Joe... Please please please can you beg ONZA to make an ONZA LIMEY 3 24! If they did i will buy one and be a happy happy man as the Mod & Stock frames are gorgeous looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Calm down monkey man!Eggzilla says Raaar!Joe... Please please please can you beg ONZA to make an ONZA LIMEY 3 24! If they did i will buy one and be a happy happy man as the Mod & Stock frames are gorgeous looking!I like your thinking- that would be sweet. You could have a family of Limey's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullapool Trials Rider Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Eggzilla says Raaar!haha thats funny. You never grew up did you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 haha thats funny. You never grew up did you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Beach Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I actually quite like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Joe... Please please please can you beg ONZA to make an ONZA LIMEY 3 24! If they did i will buy one and be a happy happy man as the Mod & Stock frames are gorgeous looking!A 24" limey?!Sounds great, I'm in! Providing it's something like...1050 WB72 or 71.5 HA375 CS45 or maybe even 50 BB I dunno, but if you ever made a 24" limey with that geo, I'd be happy to try it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) All rockmans= Yuk asthetic concept but you don't see many people slagging them/constructively criticizing them why target ONZA?This is meant to be defending ONZA as a company and you have missed the point I am not talking about the anodizing but the filthy graphics.That is complete rubbish. Does anyone remember the 2004 T-Pro produced a long time before Rockman bought our Limey 1 from us, which set them on the road to source their own frames. Does anyone recall its champagne GOLD hard anodized finish. We have been anodizing frames on and off for almost all of our 10+ years history. Thats all very well and if you actually read my posts I am the first one to speak up against the ONZA slaggers, you probably were the first to anodize frames, I wouldn't be suprised as I have said many times before I believe that ONZA do more for trials than any other company in terms of affordable bikes, new concepts and build quality of their frames. However last years ONZA's were not anodized or the year before that or before that.I apologize for using the word "plagurism" it was maybe a bit harsh but maybe "Bandwagon" would have been more appropriate. However if the case is that Joe had to go for a second choice then my whole statement of the colour is indeed rubbish. However if you tell me ONZA doesn't extract good ideas from other companies and use them in their bikes, as any good design house would do, then I believe you are talking bollox.Anodizing is a very difficult process to achieve consistency. I am fully aware of anodizing processes probably more so than yourself, no offense.We have looked at supplying separate sticker sets, but apart from the warranty implications of unbranded frames, all our decals are applied under the laquer and the quality of stickers applied post purchase is not of the level which we would be prepared to use as original equipment.This is exactly what pisses people off, but fair point the finnish of ONZA frames, I shall say again is top quality.I think there is some unwarranted rage going on in this thread. Myself and Dave have been adding positive criticism to the mix, you can choose to ignore it, get angry about it, take it on board or laugh manically at it, hate my guts for all I care, it makes no odds to me.I have nothing to gain or loose from ONZA by adding comments that my inadvertently annoy you, I can't see you sponsoring me ever ( ) and I can't see ONZA going into the Gas Turbine Manufacturing business.But ONZA have much to gain or loose by taking on board or ignoring what the public thinks of it's bikes/frames/components.And my last comment I shall ever make on ONZA products is:-Props to you guys for adding a disc brake mount and look at the number of replies to each Tarty build that Adam posts and the positiveness you could do alot worse than asking him to do your "Sample build" you may have had completely different results. Edited December 22, 2009 by Matt Vandart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Poyzer @ Onza Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 If it's not the colour you chose I hope you've negotiated a discount with the factory? I'm starting (!) to get rude because I'm repeating myself over and over (along with comments from a lot of others in this thread (and that Cleaner)) and at no point have you or Mike taken a step back and said 'ok, maybe next time we'll make sure the frames come back the colour we ordered/we'll be having words with the factory/maybe we could spend a bit more time on graphics' Mike just keeps telling me Onza designed every frame in the world and you didn't even mention it wasn't the colour it was supposed to be until halfway through the thread...I've tried to be fairly constructive but this doesn't seem to have been taken on board in the slightest.Correction. You were rude from your very first comment on the thread. Might I remind you "Joe, please please please, go onto ebay and buy some taste please". You have picked up this campaign on one frame out of many which we produce and which has had many good comments as well as bad, and then to reinforce your point you take us back six years to the T-Rex. (Which incidentally we sold well over a thousand of) You then pepper your postings with comments like "bad colour choices and crap graphics" "tackiest paint job ever" and "they continue to make bad decisions".To reinforce your comments you show me two bikes which could have been made for the 2 tone generation. You tell me how wonderful the development of the Inspired designs have been. You then tell me that BMXers who apparently are completely devoid of taste, would like the Inspired designs.Contrary to your belief I am happy to admit that we have made mistakes over the years in colours, designs, graphics and all aspects of our business. On the whole however our decisions have been good otherwise we would not be where we are now, probably the leading trials bike company in the world. Despite doubling our worldwide production of bikes, we are once more virtually sold out of 20" bikes and will have no stock until end of March, 2010. We take all comments on board when we ask the trials community for their opinions, and we incorporate opinions into our products. Joe and myself have worked tirelessly on developing our 2010 range over the last few months and I am sure there will be things about it which people will not like. A lot of that time has been spent on colours, colour combinations and graphics and I would go as far as saying that they are the best researched and most exciting range we have ever produced. As the self appointed arbiter of style and good taste, you have started this crusade on just one frame which is such a minor part of the business and which can be changed on the next batch so easily, if we so wished. A simple "Sorry, I don't like it", would have sufficed. I get the point now, you don't like our colours and graphics, okay. Luckily for us your opinions are not as universal as you seem to think.These are my last words on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 I have nothing to gain or loose from ONZA by adding comments that my inadvertently annoy you, I can't see you sponsoring me ever ( ) and I can't see ONZA going into the Gas Turbine Manufacturing business.But ONZA have much to gain or loose by taking on board or ignoring what the public thinks of it's bikes/frames/components.And my last comment I shall ever make on ONZA products is:-Props to you guys for adding a disc brake mount and look at the number of replies to each Tarty build that Adam posts and the positiveness you could do alot worse than asking him to do your "Sample build" you may have had completely different results.I did have to laugh when Joe Seddon suggested I seek sponsorship from Onza on the upcoming 24" bike... I have a feeling the bridges have been burnt there .Completely agree with all of that. There have been cases before where Mike and Joe started throwing insults etc around regarding frame designs (I think) and don't always manage to maintain a very professional image which would be fine if they went down the 'friendly British company who build bikes for the kids with relevant input' but instead often just come across (whether deliberate or not) as 'yeah, well we designed that 10 years before that company stole it from us' and don't seem to accept that the customers and riders may have something to offer.Couldn't agree more about the sample build either. If Ads had put together a pimp version of the frame for promotional purposes this whole shitstorm could've been avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 the T-Rex. (Which incidentally we sold well over a thousand of)And I'll bet you 80-90% of those were resprayed. As I said- it was an excellent frame but the colours were in poor taste.You then pepper your postings with comments like "bad colour choices and crap graphics" "tackiest paint job ever" and "they continue to make bad decisions".To reinforce your comments you show me two bikes which could have been made for the 2 tone generation.You'll find I've also made comments about the Ice and the Skull in other threads as both don't really work on a colour scheme/graphics level but that's by the by. The 2 tone generation... It's not about how many colours are used it's about the way their used and the proportions. Those are both pretty simple designs but stand out and seem to work with the frame designs.You tell me how wonderful the development of the Inspired designs have been. You then tell me that BMXers who apparently are completely devoid of taste, would like the Inspired designs.Not sure what you're getting at there. I didn't say BMXers have no taste I was saying that the fashions and styles which are acceptable in BMX are totally different to trials. Also BMXers have a few different camps- as well as the 'rat bike' camp there's also those who like their bike to look nice and those are the ones who would most probably be ok with the Inspired- both in design terms and also in colour terms, particularly the more interesting colours Dave's brought out since the first batch.As the self appointed arbiter of style and good taste, you have started this crusade on just one frame which is such a minor part of the business and which can be changed on the next batch so easily, if we so wished. A simple "Sorry, I don't like it", would have sufficed. I get the point now, you don't like our colours and graphics, okay. These are my last words on this subject.Again, as said before, this one frame, on it's own, probably looks fine in the flesh and Captain Scarlet's one shows that it can make a pretty nice build. My comments about buying some taste etc were on the complete build at the start of this thread which make the bike look tacky, through both component choice and too much gold etc. As said above, I dare say if Ads had been given the task of doing a sample build it would've looked bloody brilliant.Luckily for us your opinions are not as universal as you seem to think.But regardless of my opinion, I don't think it'd be too hard for you (Onza) to say 'you know what, maybe we could exploit the shape of the frames more when it comes to graphics, we'll look into that'. Look at Joe Seddons yellow bike. It utilises a 'swoosh' similar to the '2 tone' jobbie above which just works far better with the frame shape than what you've done with the graphics on the current production version. The Skull is another one. The skull and crossbones could've worked with a bit of effort but the graphics on the production version just looks like an afterthought.At the end of the day I honestly think Onza could be even more successful if you just thought about these little things a bit more and took a leaf out of the Rockman, Koxx Sky book or whatever, particularly with the Pro Series. But then why would you listen to me? I'm just an argumentative online nobody who should be ignored at all costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe@Onza Posted December 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Fair points. Taken on board. lets forget about it, Ads could do a better job by far......He has access to every single part ever made. We have whats "kicking about" in the factory.I'm gonna just not comment on this any more, The more I defend us the more un professional I am perseived. We do listen, Thats why we come on here. One last thing, Quite a fe people like it, So do they have bad taste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 I quite like the colour, but I don't like this full build that much.The colour doesn't allow for many choices for colour schemes, but if it was built with all black parts it could look pretty sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Mike/JoeI think the point Dave's getting at is that whilst sure, a number of people are more than happy with the way Onza currently put themselves across, a little more attention to detail here and there could extend this to a much larger proportion of the potential market. Putting extra consideration into colour schemes/graphics, as well as building up appealing promo specs etc will boost your potential buyer numbers, helping to get the "Onza = budget = cheap = not top end" mentality out of many peoples' heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Fair points. Taken on board. lets forget about it, Ads could do a better job by far......He has access to every single part ever made. We have whats "kicking about" in the factory.I'm gonna just not comment on this any more, The more I defend us the more un professional I am perseived. We do listen, Thats why we come on here. One last thing, Quite a fe people like it, So do they have bad taste?Cool beans- sarcasm duly noted. I'll leave it at that. With regards those who like it, I can't really speak for anyone else but I'd guess they're mainly concentrating on the frame itself which is understandable. Obviously there will always be people who like the gold forks and spokes as well. They don't have bad taste, just 'different' tastes... In fact I think there's a picture of one of them at the top of page 3... Now we're finished in here, have a look here. Regardless of what's gone before in this thread that's in no way a dig at you, just that you guys are obviously the best ones to answer such questions.Mike/JoeI think the point Dave's getting at is that whilst sure, a number of people are more than happy with the way Onza currently put themselves across, a little more attention to detail here and there could extend this to a much larger proportion of the potential market. Putting extra consideration into colour schemes/graphics, as well as building up appealing promo specs etc will boost your potential buyer numbers, helping to get the "Onza = budget = cheap = not top end" mentality out of many peoples' heads. Exactly. Maybe I should've started with that stuff rather than saying it looked crap but it all boils down to the same thing encapsulated in Lukes post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Poyzer @ Onza Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Now we're finished in here, have a look here. Regardless of what's gone before in this thread that's in no way a dig at you, just that you guys are obviously the best ones to answer such questions.Unfortunately not always so. As Joe said we build bikes from what is kicking around in the factory, essentially Onza and Tensile parts. When you introduce Echo, Zoo, Try-All etc. parts we are no wiser than anyone else so that is one of the reasons for a Forum like this. We are aware of the thread and Joe or myself would of course offer any assistance where we could. Help will also inevitably come from other sources ,however, from people familiar with the problem which has been encountered. Edited December 22, 2009 by Mike Poyzer @ Onza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Fair enough. It's a shame there isn't some sort of standard for singlepeed hubs/BB lengths/crank dimensions to help stop these sorts of problems. I guess there are just too many variables and possible combinations to account for.So, about that Limey 324...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 So, about that Limey 324...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Poyzer @ Onza Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 We always listen. Convince us that there is a market for a 24" Limey with whatever the necessary geometry is and we will make it. We'll probably cock it up with shite paint and crappy graphics though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 I thought this was just a rebadged Inspired when I first looked at it (after I let my eyes readjust for the dazzle caused by Scott's chest) but on closer inspection it has a rear disc mount... Zoot street I'm assuming? A swoopy Limey 24" trials bike would be sweet to see too though.We'll probably cock it up with shite paint and crappy graphics though.Now, now Mike, toys inside the pram please . Seriously though, give me a shout if you want a hand picking colours and graphics. Just kidding. But not really.Edit:As for the Limey, I guess this would be a reasonable starting point for geometry of a prototype. Slightly slacker head angle than a street 24", similar BB height (maybe a touch higher?) and a longer reach/WB. Nice and light using the same hydroformed style downtube on the 20 and 26" bikes, disc mounts and probably maggy mounts too and you're away.Edit 2: Geometry of the Kabra:WB: 1060mm Chainstays: 368mm BB Height: +60mm Head Angle: 71° From another Tribalzine page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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