Lever Problems Again!

[1handedluke]

hello all,

As some of you may know i ride trials with 1 hand, having a strap over the right hand side bar to keep my bad hand attached to the bar. I also usually ride with 2 brakes coming off 1 HS33 lever but it has always been a super problem. the brake will always feel spongy, pads are constantly rubbing against the front and/or rear rim, wheels have to be perfectly aligned etc etc. lately i have been just riding with a rear brake, just because its alot less hassle, super easy to set up and use etc. but of course i'm sacrificing a front brake which is a necessary in trials.

so i've called apon the people of trials forum to try and help me, i'm in need of someone who can built some kind of bigger pistoned lever with a working TPA, or even better a duel pistoned lever with 2 working TPA's and it will have to be coming off one lever. i'm willing to pay for this, i just don't know anyone who can build it.

Pete Wright did say he would build one for me, but he has had alot of hassle lately with family etc, and i really don't think he needs such a big project like this on his back!

ok then guys, any ideas?!?!

[Ra964]

for a short time you should try hs11 or hs22 they have a 16 mm piston not a 14 mm one

[Dan6061]

What about front and rear V's? or a front BB7?

Surely it'd be easier to set those up to pull at the same time?

Find someone that could bodge a leve together to run two cables, or try a gyro sorta design for both brakes?

At a guess, it'd be a lot less hassle than making a new Magura lever etc.

Like so:

[attachmentid=8724]

The red line will be for the front brake, as you'd want more leverage for the rear - more power.

So the black is for the rear.

Could work?

Edited December 14, 2006 by Dan6061

[1handedluke]

for a short time you should try hs11 or hs22 they have a 16 mm piston not a 14 mm one

need to get a HS22 with a working TPA! the only one which has a 16mm piston and tpa is the john tomac one, anyone got any spare

What about front and rear V's? or a front BB7?

Surely it'd be easier to set those up to pull at the same time?

Find someone that could bodge a leve together to run two cables, or try a gyro sorta design for both brakes?

At a guess, it'd be a lot less hassle than making a new Magura lever etc.

Like so:

[attachmentid=8724]

The red line will be for the front brake, as you'd want more leverage for the rear - more power.

So the black is for the rear.

Could work?

Hmmmm.... i have never really used cable to be honest, never have really thought of trusting it. maybe double disc cable?!? anyone ever used a rear cable disc, the main problem is that i need just as much power but with 2 brakes instead of 1

Edited December 14, 2006 by 1handedluke

[ben_travis]

this may seem really insensitive but can you post a pic of how you strap your hand to the bar? i am truly impressed that you didnt let a disability get in the way of you riding. now that is commitment.

but yer tell me to f**k off if you like. was just interested.

on the topic of brakes i reckon that a cable set-up might me more suited to yourself.?

any chance you could make a double lever bladed lever or something that allows you to pull a lever individually one with index finger one with middle finger?

hard one to think about really.

[Broomer]

Hmmmm.... i have never really used cable to be honest, never have really thought of trusting it. maybe double disc cable?!? anyone ever used a rear cable disc, the main problem is that i need just as much power but with 2 brakes instead of 1

rich pearson runs a rear avid bb7, and thats a beast of a brake, im sure ive seen a lever which can accpt two cables. ill try to have a look around on the net.

well get something working anyway.

liam broome.

[1handedluke]

this may seem really insensitive but can you post a pic of how you strap your hand to the bar? i am truly impressed that you didnt let a disability get in the way of you riding. now that is commitment.

but yer tell me to f**k off if you like. was just interested.

on the topic of brakes i reckon that a cable set-up might me more suited to yourself.?

any chance you could make a double lever bladed lever or something that allows you to pull a lever individually one with index finger one with middle finger?

hard one to think about really.

yep tried that, having 2 levers, but you don't really have enough power in the 2 fingers left to hold on. sure, ill try and get a picture tomorrow! anyway going climbing now, be back in about 2 hours!

Edited December 14, 2006 by 1handedluke

[RobinJI]

The black line would actually give you less leverage . But yeah, I'd have thought it'd be a lot easier than doing it with hydraulics.

I think in the states there might actually be something similar available for discs if you didn't mind using dual discs. Also this would sort out the problem of adjustment as open system discs are self adjusting. Only thing is it was using 2 lever blades with pretty much 2 whole levers running off one lever clamp so they were in the same place above and below each over. They were used on things I can only describe as downhill wheelchairs, running the 2 Hayes breaks for both front wheels off the levers, and the 2 rear in a similar way.

I think the advantaged you'd find with discs self adjusting would make it a lot easier to make a lever for it. As you could simply make a lever using a piston with twice the surface area than a standard hope lever. Maybe try contacting hope about it. Or if you wanted any plans drawing up to take to an engeneering firm and parts CNC'd I'd be happy to draw some plans up for you. Just add me on msn at ringwams@hotmail.com

[Broomer]

here is a link to the lever i was thinking about.

hope this helps

liam

hm, but if you can get robin (dont you hate it...) to design a lever for you and get hope to produce it that would be aswome.would be alot of work but seems to be the best option.

[Dan6061]

here is a link to the lever i was thinking about.

hope this helps

liam

I was about to post that.

Google Image ***.

Available at Amazon - LINK.

There's always something like this:

Maybe this would give similar power to both brakes, as a single cable would to one brake?

Obviously there would be slightly less power, as calipers of the brake will be working from one hand..

[Dan Jones]

CoppellStereo on observedtrials.net has a similar set up, worth a look.

http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=6524

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q...s.net&meta=

Daniel

[Ra964]

you can also try an rb lever on a hs22 it would help alot maybe it will give you just the power you need and also it will not feel that spongy because i used hs22 for a time and it has substantial less power and more travel of the brake pads

[Joe_Elding]

Red is a roller... means you can use a continuous one-piece brake inner cable... would even out cable pull (no need for fiddling to set it up), roll smooth (i imagine theres a lot of friction on that cable that comes out of the side of the barrel adjuster?)...

hope tarty doesnt mind me stealing his ideas...

[26inch]

If you were run a cable set up there is a bmx part that allows to cables to be run off one lever for a gyro and this puts the cables on top of each other to give the same leverage.

there is this http://www.winstanleysbmx.com/index.html?p...47&brandID=

however i know there is a neater one out there somewhere but i cant find it.

As for cable disks on the back my mate ran a bb7 and power was fine but it cracked on the mount like all do. A rear v would be fine though with the right bits

[Muel]

I would try running two discs, but with a monty hose splitter in between somewhere, but this is probably a very expensive option even if your bike is disk ready.

[RobinJI]

Just drew up a quick plan for the lever body to work with 2 maggie separately. About to do it 3d then a lever with TPAs. I'm board and had nothing better to do. haha. but if you want dimensioned drawings then just ask.

Edit

Edited December 14, 2006 by Dont you Just Hate it When...

[poopipe]

http://www.winstanleysbmx.com/index.html?p...47&brandID=

the pervert would work but they're pretty big and heavy so if you're willing to spend out on getting something made it might be worth looking at getting a lighter, more streamlined version put together.

It's not worth buggering around with the oddyssey monolever / m2 as they'll only work with a gyro but George french came up with a mod for a standard lever (with the aid of a drill and some nipple clamps/knarps) that allowed him to run two completely normal cables into a lever - it used to be in the tech section of the old GSport website, somebody might be able to furnish you with the link.

[1handedluke]

cheers for all the comments guys, well basically my bike isn't disc adaptable at all, both hubs, forks and frame would all need replacing! and all of my mounts are 4 Bolt, so that would seem abit to expensive just to try and get 2 working brakes. at the moment i'm going to try and take Dont you Just Hate it When... designs which hes doing for me with dimensions to some firm and see if they can build it for me etc. and if that doesn't work maybe a HS22 with a RB lever! if you can do that?!? isn't the spacing and lever design different? and then if that also doesn't work just have 1 rear brake until i've got enough money to go duel disc and then take it from there!

but if you have anymore comments or suggestions please post! oh i might also E-mail hope and see what they say!

Thanks alot guys, really appricate the help!

[RobinJI]

My Initial Drawing:

Obviosly the levers compressed in that picture as it would be when at the biting point.

Im pretty pleased with the way that looks if Luke can get it made it would be sweet, not really any bigger than a hope lever.

[La Bourde]

Why would you two pistons ?

It will not work.

If the pads of the front disc (for example) touch the rotor, you will no more be able to press on the lever, and if the pad of the rear brake doesn't, the rear wheel would be freed (or not enough tightened).

Only one piston on the lever with two magura Louise brake with contact adjustment will be better.

[RobinJI]

You would have to set the TPAs so that the biting points match, and allow a small amount of flex in the system. The Idea was to have individually adjustable TPAs and this is the only way it would work. If it becomes a problem then two hose splitters could be used so as to join then re-break the hose's and allow them to work as one. Also it would be possible but hard to have the two mounts for the piston rods on a rocker link, so that they will always push with the same force, but this would be expensive and difficult to produce, especially for a one off.

Also using one piston in the lever would mean you would need a much larger piston than usual, causing you to need one off pistons and seals to be made, again increasing the cost. If Luke thinks the issues you have raised will be a problem then I will just add a channel between the two cylinders so as to join the system as one, but not needing new pistons to be made.

Haha, sorry, that all sounded really formal and bitchy. Sorry, I think you have a valid point, just I think the flex will be enough if the TPAs are adjusted well.

[robster]

I take my hat off to buddy. Trials is hard enough as it is but to ride with one hand is mind blowing. I bet your good hand has some real power to it eh?

Any way back to the brake issue, I have read the posts above and there are some good ideas. It has just sprung to mind that I guess you are very dextrous with your good hand, so baring that in mind I reccon that you could modify a grip shift so that you have 2 stand alone brakes. Maggie on the back for power and grip shift "v" brake on the front. I haven't looked at it but if you could set it up with minimal twist then I am sure that you could get used to using it. I am not sure that 2 hydrolics pulling at the same time is a great idea, if one goes down then you are buggered

I wish you all the best with your quest and I am sure that there is a salution to it.

You are an inspiration to us all

John.

[GyTrials]

The only problem with the gripshift idea is that he would have to twist his hand back to put the brake which would make the majority of front wheel moves very difficult if not impossible, would you be able to get enough leverage on a gripshift to fully lock the front brake ( could poss bb7)

first person to suggest something other than dual lever type design though i didn,t think of that lol

[1handedluke]

I take my hat off to buddy. Trials is hard enough as it is but to ride with one hand is mind blowing. I bet your good hand has some real power to it eh?

Any way back to the brake issue, I have read the posts above and there are some good ideas. It has just sprung to mind that I guess you are very dextrous with your good hand, so baring that in mind I reccon that you could modify a grip shift so that you have 2 stand alone brakes. Maggie on the back for power and grip shift "v" brake on the front. I haven't looked at it but if you could set it up with minimal twist then I am sure that you could get used to using it. I am not sure that 2 hydrolics pulling at the same time is a great idea, if one goes down then you are buggered

I wish you all the best with your quest and I am sure that there is a salution to it.

You are an inspiration to us all

John.

lol cheers robster the power for my hand isn't from me riding , the problem with a gripshift of some sort would be to twist it, of course just this alone would be almost impossible my wrists would be at a 40o when going to the front wheel etc, and because my wrist would be twisted most of the time(which might even cause damage) i'd have to have my rear brake at a higher angle then it usually because i wouldn't be able to reach it. thanks anyway dude, good to see that your throwing different concepts at it!

EDIT: also when i've got 2 pistons on 1 lever if i split the rear hose, i'd still have the front working because its on a totally different system.

Edited December 15, 2006 by 1handedluke

[Tomm]

The way to do it would be to have a dual axis lever - Push down for front brake, pull back for rear. Then you could pull either, or both. But that would be very hard to make of course. Or get some awesome system that connects to your elbow or something, but again, hard.

Two pistons in line is a daft idea and would only over complicate things. Like La Bourde said, it would be hard to make it work, but the main point is that there's no advantage in that system. One larger piston is going to be the simplest thing to try, and seeing as you're getting on OK (ish) with the HS33 lever, try one with a bigger piston like the HS11 as someone said earlier.

What about disc levers? There must be some with a good size piston?