I will admit there not a bad looking frame remind me of the zoot but a bit more beefed up in some ways and i agree with adam on this one these bikes are pritty good value for what your paying for them When i first started trials the only close bikes to this price were the likes of DB street bikes,handsomedog bikes, azonic, merlin and other jump/street brand bikes and frames and they wernt really trials geo wise but most people still went for them becuse that was the way to start unless you are a rich sod who got a full koxx bike when they first came out Biddle