Mikee

I never saw get1, so i'll get on it tonight. Funnily enough, I set aside a few old trials dvds (GET2 included) a few days ago, to rip and upload to my NAS. When I get round to doing it, I'll try to remember to upload them to youtube.

Would a smaller ratchet effectively wear out quicker? Surely tolerances will be tighter, because of how small it is and with less surface area in contact.

I was half tempted to buy this. But decided that I already have enough "trophy" frames, that I will never ride. Is it too good to be ridden?

The older one looks more dependable and has plenty of engagements. The new one is just over the top, in my opinion. And is the extra cost justifiable, over competitors such as Hope?

I haven't seen any old 24" street footage in a way. I forgot how long they used to be, compared to today's bikes.

I'm really struggling with the temptation not to build up mine.

Addiction, brain damage, cancer from one cigarette? What?

I have said it’s not a perfect comparison and myself have pointed out a couple of reasons why, including addiction. But saying that no parallels can be drawn between the two, I think, is not the case. I used cigarettes as an example because someone else brought them up in the beginning of the discussion. I was not saying that cigarettes and red bull are equivalent to each other. I would question the ethics of athletes if they were sponsored by alcoholic drinks, Coca Cola or McDonald’s. Red bull was singled out because of my friend’s personal experience and that they have a massive sports presence. This isn’t a thread about what is worse for human health, it’s about athletes getting paid to promote unhealthy products.

@Mark W Do you realise that 5 cans of red bull would add up to 135g of sugar? The recommended intake for adult men is less than 40g a day. Not to mention the rest of the chemistry set in them. I chose 5 a day for a good reason. I think it is a realistic number for someone who drinks excessive energy drinks. My point is that if taken equally, are energy drinks comparable to cigarettes, in regards to the negative impacts on the human body? I am fully aware that cigarettes are dangerous and I am not saying that drinking the odd red bull is worse then a smoking addiction. I am questioning the effects on the body of one can of red bull vs one cigarette, ignoring addiction.

@Mark W Excessive and repeated smoking is generally just being a smoker and is far more common than excessive and repeated energy drink consumption. So cigarettes of course kill far more people. But in a like for like scenario, would you rather smoke 5 cigarettes a day for a year, or drink 5 red bulls a day for a year? My point is that a person with an energy drink problem is at far more immediate risk, which can be potentially fatal. So in some circumstances, energy drinks more dangerous than smoking. For your question, I simply don't have an answer. It's not as clear cut as being carbon neutral. @MadManMike It wasn't supposed to be a perfect comparison, just a hypothetical like for like. Both are dangerous. Smoking used to be acceptable. And as Ali pointed out earlier in the thread, will energy drinks have a similar stigma in the future? And maybe even get an advertising ban like cigarettes?

It's contractual.

@aener I am not disagreeing with you and understand exactly wat you are saying. But I personally see it, in this scenario, as an elephant and a mouse. I was trying to focus on what I consider the elephant. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/energy-drinks-can-trigger-sudden-heart-attacks-even-in-healthy-young-people-study-finds-10152418.html @MadManMike Absolutely not solely down to extreme sports stuff. But their logo having a massive, wide spread presence is doing them massive favours. Considering their market share. What if cigarette companies came out and said that smoking should be done in moderation. A cig now and then probably isn't doing you much harm either. If a person had a red bull every time someone had a cig, who would die first? Caffeine and sugar are somewhat addictive. I have read stuff from people who had serious energy drink problems, that it was somewhat like giving up smoking.

If athletes were also environmental activists, I think you would have a valid point. But I think for this topic, it's going off the rails a bit. Sport is very much associated with health. This is even one of the headers on a red bull athlete's page "An evolving human who has the intention of inspiring people to lead a healthier lifestyle.". The reason for sponsorship is that people who look up to the athlete are far more likely to buy products that they promote. If this didn't work effectively, it wouldn't be worth the company's investment. Red Bull do not put on these events to get people into sports, that is incidental and just the nature of people watching sports. The purpose is advertising. A quick google search says that in 2016, red bull sold over 6 billion cans of the stuff, had a revenue of 7.4 billion USD (over double the revenue of Monster) and have a significant chunk of the market share over the competitors. Their marketing strategy is obviously genius and working very well. I've already asked the question, but I would like you ask you directly @Mark W. If a cigarette company were in red bull's position, would you have the same opinion?

The environment can effect health, yes. But what sport has anything to do with being environmentally friendly? And what sports are causing large impacts on the environment? I don’t really get your point. The thread is about idolised athletes getting paid to promote an unhealthy product.

Not in the way that sport encourages

Sport is generally associated with health and fitness, not animal welfare and the environment. So I think that’s a different matter.

It was purely hypothetical, if Marlboro held such events. I get your second point, but I think getting paid to promote something “negative” is worse then showing your “negative” lifestyle choices. Promotion vs art in a way.

@aener I'm not disagreeing with you, but could you say that about any product/company? "But buying cigarettes is a personal choice. Sure, they might not have thought to if they didn't see a certain video or attend a certain event, but without Marlboro supporting them, a lot of the less socially accepted sports wouldn't be anywhere near where they are right now." I know cigarettes have more of a stigma than energy drinks, but the principle is the same. My concern is not with red bull and their right to advertise, but with the responsibility of role models, a lot of whom probably don't even drink the stuff at the request of their dietitians or coaches. I think @Ali C made a good point about whether in the future energy drinks will be stigmatised, like cigarettes. Imagine today the reaction if half way through a biking video, the rider opened a pack of cigs and lit up, because their contract says they have to. That might be how people feel in 10 years about red bull.

Red Bull sponsor these athletes and put on these events for one reason. To sell more drinks. The athletes may not be directly telling people to drink lots of red bull, but they increase red bull's perception with active, healthy living. Vast sums of money are paid to these people and to put on these events because it is very effective advertising.

@aener Just had a look at Red Bull athletes page and it includes athletes from disciplines such as running, triathlons, athletics, cricket, rowing, road cycling, fitness training, squash, swimming and hurdles. Just to name a few, quickly scrolling down the page. Yes, a lot of the athletes are from extreme sports, but a good chunk of those sports require the athlete to be at the top of their game with strength and fitness (enduro for example). Do these athletes endorse red bull? Or is it just a pay cheque?

I do wonder how many of the energy drink athletes are actually drinking the stuff. I don’t think that athletes shouldn’t be able to have such sponsorship deals. But since athletes are generally associated with healthy lifestyles, I am simply questioning the ethics of it. I believe people would see a sponsorship deal with red bull differently to Marlboro. But is there much of a difference? Obviously cigarettes are more addictive, but energy drinks can do serious damage very quickly.

I was having a conversation with a MTBing friend about red bull hardline earlier, which then turned into a conversation about red bull and the athletes. This friend of mine used to drink a red bull almost daily (sometimes more) and was hospitalised with an irregular heart rhythm. The doctor blamed it on the red bulls and said that it’s quite a common occurrence with young people. He since stopped drinking them and has been fine ever since. Consiering how bad red bull is for people’s health (and all other energy drinks), are athletes who have a partnership with them immoral?

@forteh What makes 9 speed chains stronger? I've heard that chain strength isn't affected by the different speeds, but by the material quality and design.

I have always used it primarily for messenger and add friends as more of a contacts directory. I never post and rarely look at things on there. So I said no to the poll. My New Years resolution last year was to remove all “social” media apps from my phone and turn off a lot of app notifications, to stop me glancing at my phone when with other people. It’s literally only messages and calls that get through now. I had FOMO for a little while, but that soon wore off. And I still check in on Facebook notifications and browse Instagram on my computer at home a few times a week.

@Ali C I had a hex and disagree. As a true all rounder, It was just too far street leaning in my opinion. Everything seems to be either one extreme or the other, with nothing in between anymore. Ashton justice was always my go to all rounder. And especially since you know you like them, I would try and find one second hand.