Mike Poyzer @ Onza

The Onza team and Rig make an appearance on Blue Peter tomorrow night. Don't know exactly what they are doing but they start filming tomorrow morning, we think for tomorrow night. One of the presenters is apparently going to have a go as well. Should make interesting viewing.

Those "toned down graphics" are identical to the other ones on the Zip. The model is the Zenith. Price, colour and graphics to be announced but are we ever anything but competitive. Here in about 4 to 6 weeks. Another 26 " frame is here as a prototype, pictures probably tomorrow. Badged up as an Onza but will more likely be a Zona in production. You will probably see why. This very rare and much sought after Salt and Pepper Pot will also be around shortly. Not for sale but only for the lucky few.

Just a quick note to explain the warranty and the ethos behind our launch of the Zona range. First of all you get a standard one year frame warranty against faulty workmanship or materials. As always this does not cover abuse or neglect. Zona as a brand is an attempt to show that we can produce high quality frames at reasonable prices. There will be no point of sale material or catalogues, no advertising, no sponsorship or teams, no complete cycles, little in the way of research and development and no half price replacement warranty.Whilst we will not be directly copying other designs, we will borrow heavily from existing products on the market. There will always be our own little tweaks and changes. To talk about removing the stickers and replacing with Zoo stickers goes directly against what we are doing. By all means replace them with your own design of Zona Zip stickers but wear the name with pride, to show that you don't have to pay through the nose to get a quality product. We know that the frames will achieve their own respectability and stand up by their own quality. We like to think that the Onza range has all of the above missing Zona factors but whilst generally more expensive, still always offer great value for money. Just wait till you see the 26".

Just one small point, removing decals removes identity. No identity, no warranty.

News just in from Italy. Ben Slinger, Team Onza has won both the 20" and the 26" UCI Junior World Championship Titles. Congratulations from myself and the rest of our crew on your magnificent achievement.

My point is that the first posting was probably thrown on in haste and was economical with the facts. Many readers did indeed assume that you broke one crank, which was almost new and immediately replaced it with another which again broke after only a few minutes usage. The truth was that your first crank was battered to death and was then replaced with a much older and even more battered version of the same crank which then also broke. By all means post on here if you are unhappy with either a product or your treatment by a supplier but please let us have a considered view which presents your problem in a truthful light preferably with pictorial evidence. Misleading postings will definitely be prejudicial to your proposed "warranty" claim.

We do not have a rigid official replacement policy on Tensile and we don't really want to introduce one. Returns have been minimal and this has allowed us to be very liberal in our response. I think I can say that virtually every broken crank we have had has been somewhat close to the above photographs in its degree of abuse and yet they have virtually all been replaced f.o.c. if less than one year old. As Planet X found some years ago, once you give a no questions asked warranty then people abuse it to get regular free replacements. We do not want to go down the road of an official returns policy but if we cannot keep it all very low key, then an official policy will have to be laid down and customers will be the losers. I don't believe that Middleburns with their life time guarantee would replace cranks returned in the same condition as those above.

What Adam says is 100% true. I don't know Mr Potts ( I don't think) and he certainly has nothing to do with our organisation, although his point was well made and in line with our thinking. I repeat , I do not say that we have sold more Tensiles than Middleburn RS7's.

I do not say that we have sold more cranks than Middleburns since the middle ages. I am sayin that since we introduced Tensiles we sell more than Middleburns on a year to year basis. We sell Tensiles directly from our Taiwan operation to 19 countries throughout the world as well as the UK market. They are also fitted as original equipment on four Onza bikes in the range and have always been very trials specific, being used by many top ranked riders worldwide. I do not have evidence about the sales rates of Middleburns and I make no comment about their quality which I know is excellent. My assertions are based on instinct and market penetration. As for developing our products, we run a team and keep a very close watch on the way all our products perform and we have an ongoing brief to constantly improve our products wherever possible. Your suggestion that Middleburns do not have this same ethos would I am sure be rejected by them. I have watched Middleburns cranks develop over the years and many changes have been made in that time, some major and some minor. I reiterate that my posting was not really about the merits of Middleburns or Tensiles which both have good reputations, but was about posting on here as a knee jerk reaction when you have a problem before trying to sort it out with the supplier first.

Just a few observations on this thread and any other "warranty " threads. Tensile cranks have built a superb reputation throughout the world now and broken cranks are relatively few and far between given the thousands we have sold. I would certainly dispute that their breakage rates are any greater than Middleburns given their lower numbers sold, and having sold Middleburns ourselves their breakages are by no means unheard of.(several threads have been on here about Middleburns breakages). We have adopted a very liberal policy with warranty replacements and I am sure there will be no users who have a complaint in that direction. This is not really my point however. The main reason for this posting is that returns on trials components are by no means straightforward. 99% of returned broken parts in the trials community would not stand up to scrutiny by trading standards etc. I show pictures of the two broken cranks which are the subject of this thread to illustrate my point. The first crank has been battered unmercifully and even looks to have a small piece ground out. The second crank supposedly used for a shorter time is far older and is in even worse condition with the same small piece ground out. My point is that whatever we replace either FOC or half price is done entirely out of goodwill to maintain our products reputation. Items produced in this condition to the Office of Fair Trading would be completely laughed out and deep down all riders really know this. I would therefore urge any person with a problem like this to contact us first before making such postings on here. These threads are generally started without the full facts being shown and usually only have the effect of drawing out our detractors to have a go. (Good to see in this case that there were some positive postings) This sort of action will only have the effect of making us a little wary about the returned products and certainly will not help your case to get a replacement. These forums are a great medium to promote debate on these and other items, but please give us a chance to sort your problem before sounding off.

If it is American Classic then we do carry the bearings and some spares. I don't know what Greyclassic are but if the same then parts should be the same. Call Super Cycles.

I apologise to any riders mentioned here as riding who are not aware of it. Invitations are going out this week and I am afraid somebody in the show organisation has jumped the gun. We hope that all riders who are invited will accept as it will be a better competition than last year at a much better venue and will be great showcase for taking Trials to a much bigger audience.

As he said, it is neither. The first frame is the original prototype of the frame currently being run by Ben Slinger with superb results. A little more work will see it finalised before too long. The second picture is the original prototype of the frames being run by Danny Butler and Thomas Ohler and which will shortly be available in final form as the new Onza Limey with one extra innovation not previously seen. The Zona Zip is the one referred to in the link from the original posting.

Sorry about that, the guy works Saturdays and didn't know that they came in last week. Ring him again and he will take the order.

3/32" is the thin derailleur version. It is the 810. That is the one we have in stock. We also have the 1/8" 710 version which is the wider one.

The frame is the new Zona Zip and will be with us in a two or three weeks. Matt black is £199 and brushed alloy finish is £229.

100 link 3/32" in stock now. Tel. Super Cycles 0115 9411133.

Sorry, living creatures are specifically excluded by the PO. (except Bees, silkworms, leeches and certain parasites). I suppose Dave might scrape through on the parasite section but they would probably still nail him under Filth, foul or disgusting material, heading. So it looks like he's collection only.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I have a vested interest in this issue , so I am not going to air my thoughts on it. There have however been a lot of comments about the Butlers made on this thread and I would like to add my views on them. I have been connected with them now for a considerable period and there is no doubt that their commitment to the sport is 100%. David and his whole family worked tirelessly for us last year at the Cycle 2004 trials competition which we organised and funded. They had no financial reward for it and it would be true to say that their commitment and knowledge of the sport were instrumental in making it the success that it was. I owe them a debt of gratitude and I cannot help feeling that this commitment and enthusiasm for Trials should be nurtured and harnessed by the powers that be and it should not be allowed to dissipate through petty sqabbles and contentious issues. I would also add this general comment. In any sport, if an organising body does not field the best team at their disposal they are failing the country which they purport to represent.

Don't really want to get involved in this argument as I obviously have a vested interest, but I would just say that they both wanted to ride the Worlds and did in fact enter but had their entries refused.

Zona has been our registered trade mark for well over a year and as well as being an anagram of Onza it also means zone in Spanish and is a word extensively used in trials on the continent to describe sections.

Zona is our new no frills brand and we are launching the frame in about 3-4 weeks. There will be no team, no sponsorship no publicity or adv. Just good product at low prices. Onza wiil still be our premium brand and the brand into which all our R & D, sponsorship, point of sale etc. etc. will be directed. I take issue with some comments made on here. There is no ceiling on our frame prices and we do class ourselves as a premium brand. 2 firsts and 2 seconds in yesterdays British champs shows that.

Just a suggestion, but would it not be possible to start a new product/ product news section and make it access only to manufacturers, distributors etc. who pay a subscription to gain access and allow them to post whatever they like about their brands and products. Normal members can read whatever attracts their eye and and find all information they need about their particular interest. We are happy because we can put up information as it happens. Banner adverts by their very nature are random, vague and difficult to update. They also become a blind spot to most viewers of the site.

An interesting thread, it is good to see what many people think of us and our products and I am encouraged by the general level of support for us. Just a few points to clear up. 1. The frame in the opening comment is in production and will be available in 6 to 8 weeks. It obviously borrows heavily from many designs already out there but then very few frames don't. Price to be announced. 2. The 26" frame as used in prototyping by Dan Butler and Thomas Ohler ( our Austrian rider) is finalised in the latest version being used by Dan and is also down for production, timescale also about 6 to 8 weeks. 3. The prototype being used by Ben Slinger is very radical and still needs some work but we have every intention of putting it into our 2006 range, due out before Christmas. 4. A direct tie up with Chris King in the States gives us the opportunity to spec their standard headsets on many of our 2006 higher models as well as fitting some of their hubs, so the above two frames will be our first for some time to use conventional head tubes in readiness for this change. 5. The T-Bone is still a project which is on the go but has been on the back burner in recent times. It will be resumed at some stage. 6. The tensile freewheel is at last approaching production. Some delays have occured due to slight mods and Euro design registration process but it is nearly there. We apologise for the delays. 7. We have developed a new 60 click, 4 sealed bearing rear freehub now being tested by one of our riders, which hopefully will prove up to the job in hand, for trials riding. If ok should be out by September. Also, plans are now well under way for a repeat of last years massive trials competition at the Cycle 2005 show, this year changing date and venue to the London ExCel Exhibition Centre in Docklands (new site of the Motor show). This years promises to be bigger and better with a 5000 Euro purse to the winners. Make a note in your diaries for October 13th to 16th. Thanks again to all our friends out there for your continuing support.