forteh Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 The last couple of times Ive been out on the bike my king has been making an occasional click when the chain is under heavy tension (preloading for gaps mainly). I cant feel any slip through the pedals and it isnt a nasty noise, just a single click.It had been a while since I serviced it so I did so before I went out on it tonight, cleaned the splines out as best as possible and dropped a fresh lot of finishline wet in - it clicked once during the hour or so I was riding.The hub is really quite old now, I got it second hand off ben travis back in feb 05 and it was very well used then (ben you basher!!!). There is alittle roughness in the driveshell bearings but it hasnt gotten any worse over the last 4 years and the splines all look absolutely spot on internally, all of the other bearings seem ok.The rest of the drive chain is middleburn 16t ti bash, trialtech lite 14t sprocket and the kmc trialtech chain; the chain and rear sprocket are new in the last 2 months but the ti bash has some hooking on the teeth, I dont think this is causing the problem though.Should I be getting worried or can anyone shed some light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Throw it away and get a Pro 2? When hubs get that old, other stuff can go wrong, like the seat where the bearing presses into can flare out, the seat on the axle the bearing race sit on gets squished, it could prove tricky to find the cause!I'd strip it down and go through it all piece by piece, measuring for flare, cleaning everything, checking for cracks etc.Or you could just wait until it starts skipping and send it back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Throw it away and get a Pro 2? When hubs get that old, other stuff can go wrong, like the seat where the bearing presses into can flare out, the seat on the axle the bearing race sit on gets squished, it could prove tricky to find the cause!I'd strip it down and go through it all piece by piece, measuring for flare, cleaning everything, checking for cracks etc.Or you could just wait until it starts skipping and send it back?Does trav do warrenty returns? I know what youre saying about the other bits being worn, there is a fair amount of brinelling on the axle from the driveshell bearing (why it rumbles and proof that ben IS a basher!). Perhaps I should strip the wheel and send it to adam for a full service/refurb and possibly an HD axle if it will stiffen the back end up a bit - likely to cost a pretty penny though.Anyways I couldnt use a proII, theyre way heavier than a king Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLeacock™ Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Trav wont do a warranty, but Chris King do a lifetime warranty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16 years later Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) Mines doing a similar thing.It’s not really doing much for my confidence. Edited April 3, 2009 by 16 years later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 An hD king weighs more than a Pro2 doesn't it?Anyway, if you're really arsed about weight, get a FFW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 An hD king weighs more than a Pro2 doesn't it?Anyway, if you're really arsed about weight, get a FFW. Not with an alloy driveshell But to go FFW I would need new cranks, BB, bash, hub and spokes, and even then I wouldnt save much weight over what I have now @ben, do they cover them for trials use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Motivator Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Throw it away and get a Pro 2?Yeah or not.Just give it a good service. Use a blend of Finishline Wet XC and WD40, you could also give the spring a little stretch, not too much though. My King is also pretty old (early 2004), it did skip a little while ago but the spring stretching sorted all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Yeah or not.Throw it away and get a Pro 2? You took the face off, I was joking? Even though in my opinion Pro2s are better than Kings. (Far Cheaper, nicer feeling freewheel, wider spoke base so the wheel build can be stronger). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Motivator Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 (Far Cheaper, nicer feeling freewheel, wider spoke base so the wheel build can be stronger).Fair points .People are raving about them lately though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobnobs Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I thought mine might be skipping as it did the same as you decribed, but i noticed i'd kinked one of the links in my chain. Probably worth giving that a look over before doing anything else, as when a king skips they tend to go a far way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) If it was my hub I'd clean it out and sell it to an XC rider who won't die if the freehub skips the odd time. Then I'd buy a new one and not have to worry about my hub for another 5 years+. You've got your value for money from it and half the time parts don't even do you the courtesy of warning you something is wrong. The brinelling on the axle is almost certainly nothing to do with whether the hub was used by a basher or not and more to do with the hub either being used with loose bearings or without oil. Brinelling is caused by metal surfaces contacting each other without a thin film of lubricant between them - that's why headsets in road bikes tend to pit more often than in MTBs thanks to road bikes spending more time pointed staight ahead (Giving the lubricant film time to be driven out of the contact point between the bearings and races) even though MTB's and trials bikes take higher shock loads. It's also why you can hammer the cranks off a BB and the BB will still run just as smoothly afterwards. Edited April 3, 2009 by psycholist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLeacock™ Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 @ben, do they cover them for trials use?Not sure, id just recommend just saying it hasn't been used for competition! Best bet is to speak to TartyAdam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 No it voids it, tell them you used it for XC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 If it was my hub I'd clean it out and sell it to an XC rider who won't die if the freehub skips the odd time. Then I'd buy a new one and not have to worry about my hub for another 5 years+. You've got your value for money from it and half the time parts don't even do you the courtesy of warning you something is wrong. The brinelling on the axle is almost certainly nothing to do with whether the hub was used by a basher or not and more to do with the hub either being used with loose bearings or without oil. Brinelling is caused by metal surfaces contacting each other without a thin film of lubricant between them - that's why headsets in road bikes tend to pit more often than in MTBs thanks to road bikes spending more time pointed staight ahead (Giving the lubricant film time to be driven out of the contact point between the bearings and races) even though MTB's and trials bikes take higher shock loads. It's also why you can hammer the cranks off a BB and the BB will still run just as smoothly afterwards.I dont think it has skipped as such, its just a quiet click which is why Im asking the question, if it had skipped a quarter turn then I would be looking to replace the internals at least. I dont know if youre familiar with the king internals and mechanism but basically the more force you put into the drive the more force it engages with, so completely different to a conventional ratchet and pawl.I was under the impression that brinelling in bearings is caused by overloading, causing the bearings to leave a brinnel mark in the race, in this case its needle rollers leaving longitudinal marks on the axle - in line with heavy landings and very high impacts onto the rear wheel. I highly doubt the hub was used without lube or loose bearings, as it was tarty serviced while ben had it and to be honest can you see ben travis running a hub that had loose bearings? I think not No it voids it, tell them you used it for XC.Yeah cos theyre gonna believe that with large digs in the driveshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Tell them it was a singlespeed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 The click sounds like a warning sign - the way kings engage (And based on the evidence of other damaged surfaces inside the hub) it might be notching in the helical part of the mechanism that presses the drive rings together when you put power down. The click may be the movement of the helical section to increase the drive ring engagement. If this is the case if the notch gets worse it may stop engaging powerfully over time - I'm guessing this based on one of the previous posts saying the click disappeared once he stretched the spring, stopping the hub hanging up on the notch after freewheeling, going straight to the fully engaged position thanks to the spring pushing harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 The click sounds like a warning sign - the way kings engage (And based on the evidence of other damaged surfaces inside the hub) it might be notching in the helical part of the mechanism that presses the drive rings together when you put power down. The click may be the movement of the helical section to increase the drive ring engagement. If this is the case if the notch gets worse it may stop engaging powerfully over time - I'm guessing this based on one of the previous posts saying the click disappeared once he stretched the spring, stopping the hub hanging up on the notch after freewheeling, going straight to the fully engaged position thanks to the spring pushing harder.No notching on the helical splines, its all in perfect condition; still got the machining marks in the aluminium The damaged surface is only on the bearing race on the axle, which as posted is in line with heavy rear wheel landings, that damage hasnt gotten any worse over the 4 years Ive had the hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 That was an out-there guess, but it's the only thing I can think of that would affect the hub as a trials hub. The damage needed for the click to be based on my idea would be very small though, but it should still be visible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 That was an out-there guess, but it's the only thing I can think of that would affect the hub as a trials hub. The damage needed for the click to be based on my idea would be very small though, but it should still be visible.My initial thought was some crap in the drive plates that was stopping them engaging properly but then it would skip not just click, perhaps Im looking in the wrong place and its not the hub at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Does trav do warrenty returns? (why it rumbles and proof that ben IS a basher!).Aye i do warranty returns....you send my king back, you will get a front freewheel and fixed hub in return. I am a basher haha, but you sure its not had anything to do with the nigh on 4 years of bashin you have given it...???Trav wont do a warranty, but Chris King do a lifetime warranty See above leacock....i do warranty . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Aye i do warranty returns....you send my king back, you will get a front freewheel and fixed hub in return. I am a basher haha, but you sure its not had anything to do with the nigh on 4 years of bashin you have given it...???Pfft, anyone that has seen me ride will confirm that I cannot actually ride and hence Ill blame all the bashing on you, basher! Tempting with the swap but nah, I think Ill keep my king Can you fit any hub other than the atomz to the atk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossMcd Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Are you running a magura with the pistons right out? check to see how close they are to the cranks. They may be hitting when you are putting force on them as they may be flexing a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Pfft, anyone that has seen me ride will confirm that I cannot actually ride and hence Ill blame all the bashing on you, basher! Tempting with the swap but nah, I think Ill keep my king Can you fit any hub other than the atomz to the atk?not officially but nothing a grinder and ben travis intuition cannot fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Are you running a magura with the pistons right out? check to see how close they are to the cranks. They may be hitting when you are putting force on them as they may be flexing a little.Yes they are very close and yes they do catch occasionally (damn you and flexy ti frame and damn you short ti BB!) but I swear it clicked when after I had landed a backwheel and the chain was under tension with pedals at 3&9. I could be wrong though - will have to see if it happens next time Im out Oddly enough whenever I try to force it to skip by stamping on the pedals with the brake locked it never does edit: A totally new question, if I were to put an HD axle and funbolts in do you think it would noticeably stiffen the back end? Currently I have a standard axle with a ti bolt through skewer, Im thinking that funbolts will be able to tighten up more and stiffen it up - only adds another 37g in weight Edited April 6, 2009 by forteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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