Dan_Trials Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I don't usually post threads asking silly personal taste questions like this but after spending the last few days going round in circles I need a bit of help. Right now I am riding a Giant Hawyes frame (square down tube) I am having lots of fun on small walls, ledges and steps spinning and flicking about and all that but as soon as I try and hop about on some rocks it all goes wrong. The bike suddenly feels really heavy and cumbersome. Now I don't plan on doing any competitions or trying to break any TGS records but I'd quite like to be able to progress more on the natural stuff. I am already planning on replacing the Giant as I'd rather not break it and I had all but settled on an Inspired Hex. I know that even as a mainly street based geometry it will have vast improvements over the Hawziee, and also the likes of Ali C have finished high up in the rankings in competition, but would an even bigger change help me more? This got me thinking about getting a more competition orientated frame with a view to progressing my riding on the natural stuff and then get something like a Hex when I feel the time is right. As I'm just after a taster right now my mathematics say that getting a second hand frame for sub £100 even if it only lasts a few months is cheaper than buying a new one for about £400 and losing £160 (40%) on a resale a week later. If I was to extend my budget to near £200 I see I can get a complete mod in usable condition with reasonable spec also. This would allow me to throw it about a bit more as it's lighter and smaller and also have a 26" built up at the same time. I know the sensible thing to do is to buy a high BB 26" frame and just get on with learning but I really think I'd miss the ability to roll about in the town and just play about on stuff. Sorry for my elongated ramblings and I hope those that have stuck it out to this point can pull me out of this mental merry-go-round and point me in the right direction. Thanks for reading! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
315r Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Hello Dan, UFFFF! It's difficult to advice, this is not as my topic that ask which frame fits to small guys, this is pure question of taste. Probably ride some bike with higher BB helps you to learn some movements faster, but I don't know If you'll get stuck when change again to TGS, probably not, the thing that you learn always stay there...... IMO that you don't have to do now is buy a "pogo stick", something with 30 or 40 BB would be correct. Just to learn something but not to feel extremely difference with streety geos. Always IMO, of course... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Before you get anymore deep thought provoking ideas about upgrading your ride to improve your abilities as a rider on natural, you might wanna look at a few more videos of the likes of Hawyes, Martyn Ashton, Chris Akrigg, Eddie Tongue, and see what these guys were doing on natural terrain on simular short wheelbased, low bb trials bikes. Changing your Giant to an Inspired Hex, is not gonna improve your natural riding abilties in Leaps and Bounds, when you still have to ride the damn thing and put in all the necessary hard work and commitment. The bike is just a tool in which you have to learn and adapt with the terrain you wanna ride over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATRIAL Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 why dont you try to find a frame not to high bb and not too long so you can 2 both styles , ( like the zoo pirhana short , the echo control sl short, or an ashton) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Trials Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Hello Dan, UFFFF! It's difficult to advice, this is not as my topic that ask which frame fits to small guys, this is pure question of taste. Probably ride some bike with higher BB helps you to learn some movements faster, but I don't know If you'll get stuck when change again to TGS, probably not, the thing that you learn always stay there...... IMO that you don't have to do now is buy a "pogo stick", something with 30 or 40 BB would be correct. Just to learn something but not to feel extremely difference with streety geos. Always IMO, of course... I agree with what you say there, this is what makes me think a bigger change of bike would have more effect. I am actually thinking of 50mm BB rise and to try never to touch the front wheel as I use my front wheel a lot right now. Then when I go back to low BB I would still have the ability to do front wheel stuff but also the experience of rear wheel techniques too. Before you get anymore deep thought provoking ideas about upgrading your ride to improve your abilities as a rider on natural, you might wanna look at a few more videos of the likes of Hawyes, Martyn Ashton, Chris Akrigg, Eddie Tongue, and see what these guys were doing on natural terrain on simular short wheelbased, low bb trials bikes. Changing your Giant to an Inspired Hex, is not gonna improve your natural riding abilties in Leaps and Bounds, when you still have to ride the damn thing and put in all the necessary hard work and commitment. The bike is just a tool in which you have to learn and adapt with the terrain you wanna ride over. I totally agree with everything you have said there. Unfortunately I have to change my frame, if I do the bigger stuff I will break it and I don't want to do that. The opportunity is there to replace it with something completely different or quite similar, I just can't decide which! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Trials Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 why dont you try to find a frame not to high bb and not too long so you can 2 both styles , ( like the zoo pirhana short , the echo control sl short, or an ashton) Had an Ashton, didn't like it. Spent a whole day having to re-learn simple front wheel stuff and then couldn't even side hop one pallet. This why I think that rather than something mid range I should go to something more extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Maybe buy ozonys from this guy it´s really nice frame with not too extreme geometry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Had an Ashton, didn't like it. Spent a whole day having to re-learn simple front wheel stuff and then couldn't even side hop one pallet. This why I think that rather than something mid range I should go to something more extreme. How can you justify making a conscious bike/frame change on the basis of spending a single day of riding. The riders i mentioned above spent years perfecting their bike riding skills. If Martyn Ashton was sidehopping over 40ins on his old Ashton Justice bike and you can't sidehop a pallet on the same bike, what makes you seriously believe that the problem is the bike rather than your lame efforts to ride it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Trials Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 How can you justify making a conscious bike/frame change on the basis of spending a single day of riding. The riders i mentioned above spent years perfecting their bike riding skills. If Martyn Ashton was sidehopping over 40ins on his old Ashton Justice bike and you can't sidehop a pallet on the same bike, what makes you seriously believe that the problem is the bike rather than your lame efforts to ride it? I didn't say I only rode it for one day, I said I spent a day having to re-learn things which I can do very easily on a different bike. Obviously I didn't expect to get on the bike and instantly be a side hopping god so yes I spent a while trying. I was of the understanding that a higher BB frame made life on the rear wheel a bit easier and I felt it wasn't happening for me. I think I understand what you are saying but in a different way (and maybe this is frustrating you slightly, as I feel your reply was loaded slightly towards causing an argument, which I'd like to avoid). Are you saying that I should just stick with the Giant and ride it till it breaks as this is what I'm used to and what I like? If it was good enough for Martin Hawyes and loads of other riders who are a lot better than me then it should be more than good enough for me right? Then once I have got a grip on reality and realised that you don't get handed everything on a plate and you have to work hard for it and you can't just buy your self a pile of skill, then maybe I should look at buying something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Well at least you are right about one thing which is that you can't buy skill, you have to earn it through hard work and commitment which sometimes means breaking bikes parts in the process. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKidney Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Lol. Buy the bike if you feel youd benefit from it. Chances are you will. Theres a reason that bike geometreys have moved on, because theyre better for the type of riding we do. Yes some used to do just as well on older less specialised rigs, but its because thats all that was available. No point sticking with an older cumbersome frame when you can move onto a specialised bike and have your progression speed up. It wont be sudden progression, but itll be a damn sight faster than your giant. Edited August 10, 2012 by Echo Lite 09 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 its back to the old 80/20 theory as my old man so eloquently puts it. 80% of it all is in your head, and 20% is your equipment. if you believe in your head that a better or different bike/frame will make you better, then do it. your riding will get better because you believe a better bike will make you improve. it's all about the physcology of it all. I know what I'm like when a bit is sub standard or broken, it does my head in and I ride shit. once I get it sorted or part with some cash, I ride loads better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Plus, change is good. Stick with the same thing forever and it not only gets boring as hell but you also plateau. Changing kit, especially something as major as a frame, can really help you to learn different things which translate to improvements al round including the fun you have from riding. To an extent there's always the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" shit, but to hell with that 'cause shiny stuff is cool. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Trials Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Thanks for the replies guys! I think I'm going to with what Rusevelt says and just try harder! Like I said at the beginning there's no goal to improve my riding other than to enjoy it more and I guess that enjoyment will be bigger the harder you have to work for it. If I did videos of how crap I am would that just annoy every one or could people give me advice on how to improve? I've never had anyone to ride with, there's a couple guys just getting into it now in the last month or so, that's kind of what got me to get back in to trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Dive in. Get some clips and TF will no doubt be able to point you in the right direction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Trials Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ok cool, will record me smashing into some pallets tomorrow then! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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