Ah right, nah up here phrases like that are only ever said when arguing. Thinking about it it might well have been the maggy ones I had trouble with, it was a set of citrus pads anyway I used for a couple of weeks before I got the Phatpads, they seemed to work well but they flexed loads, the backings were actually bent when I took the material out (Experimenting with different methods just for future reference), and one had cracked in one of the corners in the centre where the prongs sit, didn't really inspire me with confidence... My mate had a set of the rimjam backings, they lasted about 3 weeks, brand new aswell.