Simon Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Really, how would you build those bikes to cycle on? The shoes to walk on? The clothes to walk in? How would we mine the materials, deliver the materials, manufacturer, plan the advertising compaign, watch the campaign, ship the products. I could be here for days. With the progression in technology over just my life time, i would hope by the time shit actually runs out that we'll have something else in place ready to take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgzGU! Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Well i am not sure if it is totally true but i seen a video of saxow that runs on h20 (water) but the only thing that it was not road legal because was too fast but not sure if it is real ? Has anyone else seen it and know if t is real or not because if it is real everyone would me sorted Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 It wasn't road legal because it was to fast? Yeh man, full on truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 WE'RE AL DOOMED!!! DOOMED I TELL THEE!! I read the entire thread would have just one more thing to add. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave85 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 It does seem to me that a lot of oil is used for carting things around the country simply because big brands create a market for one kind of thing. For example, beer. It's basically water, and less than 50 years ago it was never transported more than ten, maybe 15 miles from the brewery. Now it's trunked around the country simply because people want a certain brand and there are savings to be made by brewing on an industrial scale. To me, that is obscene, that we should cart water around. Same goes for a lot of stuff, never mind how cheap it is to go to lidl for a packet of biscuits, you know that the ones from the baker are probably better for you, and you know that supporting a local business will be beneficial to your community. But few people think like that, and some days it's really disheartening to consider that we live in a country of selfish morons. Having said that, I'm a huge f**king hipocrite, cos I drive a lorry for a living, and do so simply because I enjoy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 MarkFact: In my town in Wales, the local bakery got shut down almost 'cos it was f**king rancid in their actual cooking area. Largely, the reason people don't go to 'local' places like that is that they're more expensive, and people can't afford it? That's the reason that when I used to eat meat I'd go to Sainsburys and buy some mince or chicken instead of going to Borough Market and picking out some stuff from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave85 Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 That's part of what I'm saying, you have to consciously make the effort, perhaps spend some more money to get local stuff, altho round here farm produce is almost always cheaper than supermarkets by the time you've used a few quidsworth of jungle juice taking the car to tescos. Whatever, we've got to stop using so much energy in everything we do, and the only way to make the proletariat do that is make it pricey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianC Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Really, how would you build those bikes to cycle on? The shoes to walk on? The clothes to walk in? I was being sarcastic... Good point nevertheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarshRider Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 Don't know if its already been said, but... I was having a 'current affairs' sort of chat with my economist dad and my uncle who is/was vice chairman of Goldman Sachs. Discovered that this is yet another topic they could talk me to death on... All the 'easy oil' has been found. Oil companys are going to have to make some serious effort to locate more, although there is more. Crude oil is at 135 USD (give or take a little bit) a barrel currently (media along with everybody else was going crazy when it reached $100). Goldmans reckons its going to reach $200 per barrel, stay there, then eventually go back down pretty quickly. This is making people holding, say $10m in oil stocks that they bought 6 months ago, to keep holding on to it. Bit of a no-brainer, do you sell it now to stop people getting annoyed, or do you wait a bit longer and line your pockets..? Obvious. So these fat cat oil stockists will hold on to this oil as long as they can so they can make the most money out of it. However, because there are so many of these people holding oil stocks, what will inevitably happen, due to their own greed, is - They'll wait as long as they possibly can to sell, so as soon as the market shows any sign of devaluing - they sell up. With all these people selling up their huge stocks of oil at the same time, the price will fall because there will be so much supply, and the same old constant level of demand. My dad flipped my thinking around by saying that - Short term, everybody is wingeing about high petrol prices. Long term, this is making car companys/any body else who fancys it put A LOT of thought and serious money into researching new ways to run things i.e. batteries etc (bit more complicated than batteries, but you get the idea). Thats probably been f**king hard to read because I'm writing this at way past my bed, time, but trust me - I'm talking sense. Edit: Hahahaha Just found out on google that my uncle is non-executive director of Yell Group PLC (Thats yellow pages to you and me). Looool. i agree with this chap, i was speaking to my economics lecturer about a similar topics on energy. basically why should they change what they sell if its making them such a big profit, because oils are such a important product to everything we use i think the oil company's can do what they like. i also think if any one found an alternative to any thing oil based, e.g .petrol that would work on a mass produced level that they would end up with a someone on their doorstep with a blank check and a pen. it makes sense to me. i think there may also be already be alternatives but like like i said before that they have already been bought out by big oil companies, also just because something hasn't come out in the news doesn't mean that it hasn't happened, im sure there is loads of stuff that the government and media are hiding from the public. this however is only a theory which i believe might be true, in my opinion. who knows, we might all be f**ked still! haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRtZ Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 I don't understand why people dont like wind farms. I like windmills Ah well, looks like us, and members of MBUK forum will still be able to get around the UK on bikes while the rest of britain suffer. Also I got told by lecturer regarding the hydrogen fuel cell mentioned earlier, that the amount of energy used to make one, is a bit more than the end result. So in effect, hydrogen fuel cells are bad I think, scientists at the moment are banging their head against the walls, by researching more and more ways to achieve the impossible? As an example, the hydrogen cell I just mentioned, it would work, it can power things, but it requires more energy than it gives out so its useless. I personally dont think the answer is going to be a simple one. I have a feeling its going to come with the invention of something INCREDIBLY weird and wacky like a faeces fuel cell (or FFC for short) no im not high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 The UK is over populated. There simply is not enough physical space for us to grow the crops needed to supply the population. That's why we waste so much transporting stuff. The only way to stop the problem is to spread out and split into smaller communities. Like that of a the BedZED, it's about the best solution for our houses, as it represents the closest to a self sustaining being we have, and despite being projections, these figures add up for themselves. This stuff needs to start now, or we screwed, yo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Personally i think it's very interesting. Interesting in the way that everything WILL change, possibly for good or bad. It'll be fun finding out though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVWOCI WVS Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 whats the story with hydrogen fuel cells? I mean; have they worked out how to store/deliver the hydrogen yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 That's not the issue. The issue is it take more energy to produce raw Hydrogen than it gives back in the reaction used by a Hydrogen Fuel Cell. Otherwise, you'd have grounds for a machine of perpetual motion. :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearded Midget Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 That's not the issue. The issue is it take more energy to produce raw Hydrogen than it gives back in the reaction used by a Hydrogen Fuel Cell. Otherwise, you'd have grounds for a machine of perpetual motion. :| so for dumb people like me. does that mean that basically that it will use more energy creating it than what it will actually give to the vehicle therefore making it a waste of time trying to save the environment and all that shit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme_biker0 Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Electrolysis would do it, but as you say, its inefficient with water so it could never work well enough to power a car. But think, pure oxygen makes stuff burn very quick. Hydrogen is the most volatile/explosive/reactive substance around. Imagine hydrogen going off in pure oxygen... You'd get a scooter engine more powerful than a car. The plus side is, hydrogen + oxygen = water, so when you split the water, then ignite the products, you get more water, which is theoretically an infinite fuel source. Haha, you're a clever one! Yeah, it would be the same with the water if you could split it. You'd only have to top it up every once in a while Some electric cars are pretty quick nowadays. In my house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics! Compressed air, hydrogen are both just ways of STORING energy, like a battery . The big problem is how to *generate* the electricity. For example, it's easy to get the hydrogen out of water (split it into it's component parts as someone said) using electrolysis, or fill up a compressed air tank with a compressor, but both of these require energy in the first place. Wind, solar, fusion, GM algae that excrete petrol, burning compressed dead animals from millions of years ago (oil), these are all ways of generating useful energy (electricity). You guys seem to not have that distinction clear, as people have been talking about generating electricity with hydrogen. There is no sense in that. Personally I think GM algae are the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_addison Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 What GM alage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Token Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 What GM alage? Linky Winky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG Drew Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 (edited) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/envi...icle4133668.ece lol. Also I am sure I read something about anti matter been useful in some way? Can't find anything now though... Edited June 21, 2008 by BIG Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Pearson Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 I havn't come across this thread yet, and reading through it has made me kind of proud at the way that the group minds here have all come together to discuss the problem. But I would kind of like to ask a diferent question which deviates from the thread's original subject matter; Why is it an actual problem? I just don't quite see how no longer having the use of all these things like cars, trains, planes and ships is anything more than an inconvienience people are unwilling to take because they've got so used to the power they have through all these things. Discuss. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 If you think about any single item you currently own, use, or wish to own (Basically, anything), then oil will be used in almost every stage of it's production. At the moment, on my desk, I have next to me an Evian bottle (Made of plastic, aka oil). I bought that from a shop, where it was delivered by lorry (Fueled by petrol, aka oil). The water was sourced and bottled by machinery (That will require oil to be produced and maintained), and so on. Basically, every single aspect of our life relies upon the use of oil in some shape of form. It's in everything we have or use. It's not really just a case of not being able to drive, although if no-one can drive, how are we going to suddenly be able to grow enough food for everyone to eat (Not to mention package it so it stays fresh and is able to be transported from place to place for people to consume. There's also then the issue of how to cook it, what to eat it off, etc.). If you're ill, what would happen? How would you get to the hospital? How would the hospital be powered? How would the doctors and nurses get to the hospital to work? How would everything be produced for the hospital (utensils, etc.)? How would the medicines be produced and transported there? How would there be enough people to train to become an efficient medical team without university graduates spreading out around the country (Which they wouldn't be able to do with no means of transport)? And so on... Not having oil will be a pretty massive f**k-up for everyone's lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 So you are saying going back to the victorian times would only be an inconvienience to people who have only ever been accustomed to driving 10 minutes to Tesco? Who can by mangos, pineapples, bananas and tea bags all from the same shop? Suddenly being able to travel up to 400 miles in a day with ease, from not be able to go 100 unless you are physically fit? People who go to the Costa Del Sol every year for less than the price of a train ticket from london to Glasgow? People like nice things, they have nice things, most of them would like to keep them, and giving them up will be very hard for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 It's not a case of it being 'hard', it's just that with the way our society is setup, it'd be almost impossible to actually have a working country? It's not like we 'suddenly' went from the Victorian era to what we have now, is it? As a result, suddenly changing back (To pre Victorian times to be more accurate?) would be pretty challenging... I'm aware that we need to change how we live, and I'm not saying we can't/shouldn't, all I'm getting at is that the 'problem' is more entrenched than it being a case of being slightly inconvenienced by suddenly not having oil. Like I said, it's not all just about transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Indeed. That's kinda what I was trying to get at, sudden change to "O M G No fuel" will be problematic (and unlikely), gradual change will make it far more managable. The trouble we face is making it as gradual as possible, and we need to start now, before it's too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Seeing all these rising fuel prices is really starting to take a toll on not only me, but a majority of people I work with. I mean - they HAVE to drive to London most days, and carry all their equipment with them, costs them £80 a day. I mean, wtf. It costs me about £100 a day if I drive, so now I'm just training it when I have to go in to London. (£50 ish on the train, and I feel very in-secure walking around London with £3k plus worth of stuff with me) One of my friends has just had his car gas converted, and dayum... it actually really went, and was surprisingly quiet with the bonnet shut, reckon that's a possible way forward? It got the same MPG, but the fuel was a lot cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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