87Monty Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Can`t get my titanium sprocket loose, have destroyed 2 types of Chains,with a long steelpipe for loosing it.. the reason i want it out is cause i need to install a 3mm spacer to get the Chain more lined up..lol.. any tip to a good tool for dissasemble sprockets? its a screw on type.. im scared to destroy the Jitsie aluminum hub or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I will almost guarantee that it's not coming off without destroying the hub threads Unless it was slathered with lots of copaslip on assembly then it will likely have galled and cold welded itself to the aluminium. Titanium screw on sprocket is possibly the worst application of a material I can think of! Sorry to be the pessimistic bearer of bad news but I suspect it's stuck for life now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Do you mean you're using a chainwhip of some sort? If so, that won't be helping. If you've got access to a vice then wrapping the chain around the sprocket then clamping that in the vice makes life a lot easier. If you've got the tyre on and inflated that'll help too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/media/guides/maintenance_freewheel_and_sprocket_removal/m1.html From about 1:20 is what you are after I think. The way in the video has not failed me yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Monty Posted May 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 I have use this tool, but it was not so expencive so it looks like the chain was poor quality too. I took on a steel pipe to get more power, i took off the chain on the bike first, and try to get it loose when my dad hold the rear brake so the wheel didnt spin. But the chain of the tool get destroyed.. I will try the method that Adam in tartybikes use in same table tool.. Just need to find a better chain to use. Im not sure if i can get it loose just to twist the wheel with the arms. I think i use some grease on the thread when i installed the sprocket btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Yeah, chain whips just don't handle it. As Cap said, that vice wrapping thing works every time. One thing you can do (which I can't remember if it's covered in the video) is to make a little triangle/pyramid with one of the links so it stops the whole setup being able to spin in the vice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Second the chain in decent sized vice is much better than any chainwhip will ever be. That said I really don't think you will get it apart without tearing the threads off the hub, see here for more info on thread galling; you have the worst situation possible - fine pitch titanium and aluminium threads. Grease will have helped prevent galling on assembly but it dries up and washes out very easily, a decent antisieze compound (like copaslip) is basically a grease with a very heavy load of copper particles which act as both a barrier and lubricant between the friction surfaces of the threads which allows dissassembly. I feel your pain, today I found out that the spring cap on my marzocchi 44 rc3ti forks is siezed solid (having come back from an aborted service), the thread has been re-assembled dry and the aluminium threads have welded themselves together. Fortunately I was able to get around the issue by rebuilding the forks in reverse order. Lovely 37th birthday suprise for me Consider if moving the sprocket is worth potentially destroying the hub. Good luck, you'll need it! Edited May 21, 2016 by forteh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Monty Posted May 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Hum, sounds not good, where can the thread on the hub be destroyed if so? Under the sprocket when trying to loose it? Is it better to cut it up a bit with a cutter machine grinder and buy a new sprocket? (oh i found out i have an aluminium sprocket on the original rim,if i should change it,) but a bit heavyer, At least the chain dont hit the spokes on the rim,but im just thinking the chain may wear out the tooth on freewheel or sprocket more if its not 100% lined up? At least it works ok like its now, but hearing some "cracking" noises some times,like if you walk on old wood floor, lol.. im not sure if its some dirt between the crankbearings or frame or if its the chain who make it. Edited May 22, 2016 by 87Monty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 It'd be worth trying the vice method. As Cap said, we've taken off loads of sprockets with that method with no issues whatsoever, including several that other bike shops described as 'impossible' to remove. They're always super tight, it's just the nature of screw-on parts in a drive-train. For chain line, unless you've got a freehub with plenty of adjustment like a Hope you're always going to have to compromise. If it's making a lot of noise then that's not ideal, but if you've just changed sprockets and you're using an old chain (as an example) you can quite often get a lot of noise as they bed in to each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 The threads will have welded themselves together and can now be considered to be a single piece of metal. If you put enough force into it, you will simply tear the metal apart. You could potentially cut through the sprocket and with care not cause too much damage to the hub threads. That might free it off enough to crack the galled threads but even if it does work you will need to clean the threads with the right size die nut (which I dare say would cost me than a new hub!). If it's a creaking noise like a loose floorboard then check the BB and cranks are greased where they might rub together. Creaking metal components are caused by unlubricated surfaces moving together, that could be BB threads, crank splines or even headset cups and spacers. Generally in my experience, chainline issues will result in a sudden crack noise and a jump in the cranks (like a skipped freewheel), if you're getting creaking then I don't think chainline is your issue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Monty Posted May 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 allright thanks for advice and info, maybe it is time to service the bike a little and see if the creaking sound will dissappear,, will look more on the sprocket and see if i can get it loose in a vice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 13 hours ago, Mark W said: It'd be worth trying the vice method. As Cap said, we've taken off loads of sprockets with that method with no issues whatsoever, including several that other bike shops described as 'impossible' to remove. They're always super tight, it's just the nature of screw-on parts in a drive-train. This. Try this for holding the sprocket in the vice: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Monty Posted May 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Aha,thats nice, thanks i will try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Monty Posted May 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Tryed to take some pics of the chain, i see now i have use grease on the thread when i installed the sprocket. But dont know yet if it easyer to disasemble if it was without grease. Edited May 23, 2016 by 87Monty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gage-mann Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Maybe dishing the rim slightly to the left and then letting one click off the non drive side snail cam would help. Is it a kmc 610 chain? If you can dish the wheel slightly and put a 510 chain on it looks like you'll probably get away with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifes-a-trial Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 On 5/22/2016 at 10:14 PM, forteh said: The threads will have welded themselves together and can now be considered to be a single piece of metal. If you put enough force into it, you will simply tear the metal apart. If that is the case cutting off the sprocket won't work . Looking at the pictures it doesn't look too bad. Do what the tarty team advise and you will be on to a winner. They the men . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Monty Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Yeah.. well im thinking the sprocket is stuck to the sidewall on the hub,cause it is not hard to install on the threads. so maybe it is "welded" there. will try later to get it loose.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 That's what I meant before though - when you pedal, you're putting way more force through that sprocket than you would do from just tightening it on by hand, and it makes it super tight. A chain whip isn't designed to remove anything, it's designed to just hold a cassette in place while you undo the cassette lockring which is done up to a way lower torque than you will have now tightened the sprocket on to. That's why the chain whip is breaking, not because the sprocket has fused itself to the hub in any way. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC12345678910 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 On 5/22/2016 at 10:14 PM, forteh said: The threads will have welded themselves together and can now be considered to be a single piece of metal. If you put enough force into it, you will simply tear the metal apart. You could potentially cut through the sprocket and with care not cause too much damage to the hub threads. @87Monty This totally works. Surgically cut up the sprocket into quarters, one quarter at a time; then by the time you have split the sprocket into pieces and half half of it off, the other half will, hopefully, have sprung open enough to unscrew what's left on the hub, though it might take some force. It may happen after the 1st cut if your lucky - at least at this point you can get some gt85 in beneath the sprocket and potetially apply heat to the sprocket - titanium gets really hot, really quickly, so it that would increase the chance of it unscrewing with the vice and chain like usual with little pain. you should clean the threads with the right size die nut but honestly a steel screw on sprocket with tons of 3-in-1 style light machine oil applied then (very carefully) screwed on and off again by hand a dozen or so times will do that job just fine. How successful you are all depends of how skilful you are with a 115mm angle grinder i'm afraid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Monty Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) About cutting sprocket, last time a old freewheel i had on another bike was stuck and i didnt have the right tool to disasemble it, i just cut it off and rescue the threads, so im careful about cuttin things up, lol.. But i will try to us a vice first and see.. Im not sure if the bearings and seals will handle it, if im heating the sprocket first a bit. I will try without first if so.. Will try to use som wd40 betwen sprocket and hub wall but not sure if it will help .. Edited May 24, 2016 by 87Monty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 You won't need to heat it up first. Just as another tip, just straining to loosen it off won't be as effective as quick, sharp attempt to do it - if you can 'shock' it it will be easier to remove. If you have someone else who can help you, you can both grab the wheel together, then try and suddenly twist at the same time and it should come off fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Monty Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Yep, that was what i think. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamAllen Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 This has been going on far to long... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Monty Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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