Choosing A Jump Bike (sorted)

[Tommy d]

My dirt jump (slash downhill) bike got stolen. Bad

After a wee worry about whether or not it was covered, the insurance company are paying up. Good

They are buying me a new bike, which has to come from this one particular company, but (I think) I get to choose between a few different ones. I want to be able to tell my dad which one tomorrow morning so it would be appreciated if I could get some advice tonight (Tuesday). Lets go...

Number 1 - INSTINCT http://www.wheelies.co.uk/bikesNew/bikeDet...upplier=SARACEN

This is the bike that the company actually offered. It's possible I might have to have this one but I think I get to choose.

Number 2 - AMPLITUDE http://www.wheelies.co.uk/bikesNew/bikeDet...upplier=SARACEN

Same price, a few differences.

Number 3 - P2 http://www.wheelies.co.uk/bikesNew/bikeDet...ier=SPECIALIZED

£100 cheaper so I'm not maxing out on value, but it still looks quite good to me.

So onto my questions:

Are the forks all the same? They're all DJ3s but they're described slightly differently... does it make any difference?

The cro-mo frames on the Amplitude (2) and the P2 (3) look better to me, but will that actually matter? Strength comparisons?

Cranks: I want a bashguard/rock guard thing that goes all the way round, mainly to stop trousers getting caught in cogs. Does the Instinct (1) in fact have one? It says it does but the picture doesn't seem to. I'm guessing the partial one on the Amplitude (2) rotates with the cranks? Forgive my ignorance, I havent had one of those before. And are any of these cranks particularly bad or would any of them serve me well?

I'm guessing the hydraulic brakes on the Instinct (1) are the best? Anyone care to educate me about any of these brakes?

I don't know anything about any of these wheels so again educate me! Any good or bad ones there? I know Maxxis tyes come highly recommended, but the tyres on the P2 don't look very knobbly to me, and I do tend to need that when it's muddy...

Ditto all the other parts basically, like bars, stem, pedals etc. Anything I should know, or are they all equivalent. I want singlespeed, but I can happily take off the gears and fit a tensioner myself so that won't be a problem.

EDIT: situation has changed, as described in about 15 posts time.

EDIT: I think it's all sorted. I'm sure I'll be back asking for more help if that changes... thanks for everyone's advice

Edited November 9, 2006 by Tommy d

[Fixed Pants™]

I'd go with the first one but i don't know much about dirt/ jump bikes.

Can you only have saracen? Konas are generally better bikes and theres afew on that page that are under £650...

And if you can choose any bike i'd definetly get this BEAST

[Radfax]

P3 all the way mate! they are great!

The build on the P3 seems a lot better than the otheres even though the brakes are cable if you are jumping a cable will be fine, hydro discs when you jump are poo ive always run cable discs on my jump bikes, its a lot easier to adjust them withought havong to bleed the whole brake.

Tyres arent to much now, dont let that put you off of a amazing bike! If i rember correctly the P3 only had one ring and a set of rollers so there will be no worries of snagging trouseres here and the roolers will be a good part to have, and DJ3's rock.

hope ive been of some help

Edited November 7, 2006 by Radfax

[Has anyone seen my shoe?]

The P2 looks lovely, id go for that.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Has anyone seen my shoe?

[Burton]

For starters, Wheelies f**k about waaaaaaaaay too much. took 3months to get my Giant STP zero. REally good bike. Good spec.

Go for that or the P2. (P2 is instock, so you will have it quickly)

[tank_rider]

Another vote for the P2, the frame should be a bit better thought out than either of the saracens, and the spec is still pretty much as good for less money. Maybe see if you can get a fork upgrade with the extra £100?

[Tommy d]

... Giant STP zero. REally good bike. Good spec.

Ah ha, didn't spot that when I was browsing. Looks good indeed. Now my choice is more complicated... Thanks anyway.

Any more info for me people?

[Prawny Baby]

yea.

tell wheelies where to go!

they f**ked me around a treat when my ashton got nicked.

i gave them a spec, and they came up with all sorts of shit to aviod getting trials specific parts, apparently ashton had done his back in again and wasnt making any more frames ever again.

they soon shut up when i told them i had been speaking to him in plymouth just days earlier....

they came up with an obscene price for my replacement bike, of around £2400, when i had told them it was worth £1900. and tehy were still offering me shite!

one call to my insurance company with a quote from tarty bikes for £1800 compared to wheelies £2400 and a cheque was on its way to adam and dave the next day.....

dont f**k around thinking you have to take what your given. your entitled to an exact replacement of what was stolen, and if its remotely specialised, wheelies will mess you around no end.

[Broomer]

i used to have a last years p1 and it was very nice, ide go for that if i were you, manualed a beauty the only thing i didnt like was the low bb. saracens fall apart and eventuly you end up replacling every single part.

hope this helps

[Alan]

Another vote for P2.

[Tommy d]

tell wheelies where to go!

they f**ked me around a treat ... ... ... dont f**k around thinking you have to take what your given. your entitled to an exact replacement of what was stolen

So, the plot thickens... i.e. Wheelies are of ill repute to say the least.

In this particular case though, I'm not too offended by their offer. I'm more willing to just choose one so that it all happens fairly quickly (ideally). This is because: my stolen bike came off ebay for £200 over the summer and I only upgraded about £70 on it, it was 'well used' although working alright. I don't have a great knowledge of what parts are best for jump/DH riding so there's no point in me insisting on exactly the same spec that got nicked. It probably wasn't that awesome anyway. Here's what I had, roughly priced up:

Frame Saracen X-ile £100

Forks Marzocchi Dirt Jumper 3 2005 £200

Headset Cane Creek / generic £25

Bottom Bracket Generic ISIS £20

Cranks Truvativ Hussefelt ISIS £40

Front Wheel Planet-X LMF disc £50

Back Wheel Alex DX32 on Mission hub £60

Stem 24seven £25

Handlebars DMR Wing Bars Cro-mo £22

Grips DMR £7

Back Brake Tektro V, Avid lever £25

Front Brake Shimano cable disc brake, generic lever £25

Tyres Maxxis Minion DH 2.35" Dual Ply £44

Casette DMR Singlespeed spacer kit £16

Tensioner Surly Singleator or similar £10

Chain KMC Zed £10

Pedals Azonic fusion £25

Skewers Generic allen key £8

Inner Tubes Front - Generic, Rear - Nokian DH £12

Seat Wethepeople BMX seat £18

Total value new = £742

Thats what we sent to the insurance people.

All 3 (or 4) of the bikes here look like they are up to that standard or something like it so I can't really complain?

From people's recommendations here I'm thinking of going for the P2, but still open to suggestions. EDIT: or the Amplitude. mmmm. hard choice.

Thanks for all your advice so far.

EDIT: piccy of stolen bike:

Edited November 7, 2006 by Tommy d

[Krisboats]

Don't go for a saracen, as has been said, the build quality will not be as high as it is on the P2... however, could you not say that these bikes aren't the sort of thing your after and could they maybe look at getting you something along the lines of a kona instead?

My friend has his kona given to him by the house insurance and it is a beaut, he had trouble with the original shop the insurance company offered, and when he showed them that the bike was not worth what the shop had quoted the insurance company were happy to offer him the kona, they saved £50 and jay got a better bike... everyone was happy.

[RobinJI]

Defiantly go for the P2 over the amplitude, on paper they are a close match, but the Saracen will ride like a pile of wank, when the P2 will ride like a dream. Also the quality of the frame is much greater on the P2 leaving much more room for upgrades.

Oh, and Avid mechanicals work better than Hayes Sole hydraulics anyway. I know from experience.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Dont you Just Hate it When...

[narrowbars]

Shame it's coming from wheelies as there shit especially with warranty

[tank_rider]

If you can wangle it try and get a 2007 Kona scrap, its £700 and will be better than anything saracen have to offer and is cheaper than your max amount so they should be happy to do it. Wiggle have them in stock.

[TheMunn]

Don't go near the saracen bikes! Seriously the specialized is soo much better, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot if you didn't get it.

[Tommy d]

So, update time!

It's looking good, they are letting me have the Specialized P2 instead of the Saracen, and with the £100 in price difference I can choose some parts to upgrade. I think. It's a bit confusing because my parents are phoning them from home (I'm at uni) as it's their home insurance, so I'm getting all the information relayed to me from them

The minor complication here is that the extra parts still have to come from our friends at Wheelies

The main thing I want to upgrade (although it might be considered a downgrade) is from gears to singlespeed. I'm a bit mystified by the dropouts on the frame, which I kind of need to understand in order to make it singlespeed. It is described as:

6mm offset horizontal drop out for 26" wheel w/ replaceable der hanger adapter

on the Specialized website. What does this mean? Some way of combining both horizontal and vertical dropouts? I haven't seen that before so could somebody explain it to me? Do I need a chain tensioner that fits to a mech hanger e.g. Surly Singleator etc or do I need chain tugs, mod bike stylee?

Either way I'll ask for a singlespeed spacer kit so I can have just the one sprocket of my choosing but I need to find out about the tensioner.

Also, I'll have some money left over, so I need to think of some other parts to upgrade. Suggestions please?

Does anybody know anything about the tyres?

Front = Specialized Rhythm, 26x2.3", 60TPI, wire bead

Rear = Specialized Compound, 26x2.2", 60TPI, wire bead

I can't find a description of those tyres on the Specialized site. I need tyres that will be good off road, in mud basically. Are those suitable?

Thanks for everyone's help.

[Krisboats]

The dropout may be something like the azonic steelhead dropouts. Horizontal but with the wheel in a fully forwards position in the dropout you can run gears with the mech hanger in a fixed position on the dropout.

[Tommy d]

I think I'm sorted now cheers guys

[RobinJI]

All it means about the dropouts is that there off to one side slightly, there still normal horizontal dropouts, but iff you look at the bike from above, the rim will be in the middle of the hub flanges, not the middle of the dropouts. and the mech hanger means that it has the mech hanger aswell as the horizontals, so you get the choice.