Prototype Hope Mod Screw On Rear Hub

[Skoze]

I'm just saying what evryone else has said/ wants when i say baby ProII.

With regard to being able to fit a freewheel to the hub, how many mod riders would?

The average gear ratio on mods is what, 18:13/12? (don't hold me to that, mod's are the bikes of the antichrist ) All the top frewheels come in 16T minimum, and 18:16 is too easy for most stock riders. So unless any mod riders want to run a 22T front cog (which i can't see happening), just to be able to use your hub with some freewheel or another, it'll be purely a fixed rear hub, of which there are many cheaper alternatives to already.

Mini ProII would make an absolute killing.

Matt

[Alex-Mitchinson]

Very much doubt the weight will be anything to shout home about. A front Pro2 is heavier than a rear Try-all, so the rear is going to be a lot heavier. It's not like there's any demand for a 116 fixed screw on hub, we already have like 10 to choose from. And as far as I can see the mod Pro2 offers no advantages over what we already have.

[Ashley Smith]

I couldn't ever see myself using one of them. Screw-on cogs are a pain, i'll stick to the Echo replaceable cog with lock ring.

But choice of spoke drilling is a must. The through axle is a good idea i'd say, easy maintenance and replacements..

But personally i'd like chromo/ steel snail cams which are notched. A harder metal to avoid wear plus notched helps with keeping the hub in line. The current line of snail cams are shocking.

And more higher grade bearings (if not done so already).

good advice, we had actually considered a spline, similar to the echo hubs which use a lockring, maybe this is a possibility for us.

how about titanium notched snail cams? i use monty snails atm, they seem ok with the notches in

See I'm the other way round. If you want a cog on the back, whats the fuss? you screw it on and thats it. Its not as if you ever need to take it off to clean it

But as said above, hope would make an absolute killing if they brought out a decent,reliable cassette hub for mod WITH A DISC MOUNT! The only options as far as I know are the deng ones or a king

the other side to the argument, a screw on cog on a wheel is easy to remove with a piece of chain and a bench vice, easier manufacture than a spline as well.

We told them this years (probably 2 years plus now) ago and actually pre-ordered 120 hubs... still nothing. Probably won't be long before someone comes along and fills the gap in the market, which is a shame.

adam, i will speak with owen at hope this week.

One comment, why not make the flanges equal sized as it makes building the wheels a bit less fiddly - not just spoke lengths but feeding them through as well.

Looks nice though. I like the bolt on hollow axle - I wish companies would start using 12mm bolt on (as DH bikes) for stocks. It just makes sense for stiffness.

A baby Pro II would be nice though - then you could do the flanges the same size as per the normal Pro II.

Jamie

the idea for the axle design was taken from motor trials and similar for the dh bikes. its something we have never tried before, wayne is currently testing a through axle design on his stock pro2

Dont really know too much about these kind of hubs, but having to carry a spanner about with you incase the hub comes loose on the axil would be quite annoying. usually it would just need allen keys, which im sure most people carry anyway.

But I can see that it would be a tad stiffer.

good point, something that was never really talked about.

I'd like to see a Shimano style spline rather than screw on fittings for the sprocket. A standard for mounting single sprockets/freewheels that isn't screw on is badly needed at this stage (Though that mostly depends on freewheel manufacturers getting off their arses and making spline mount freewheels). The only reason screw on freewheels/sprockets turned up to begin with was because it was being driven by a 2:1 gear or bigger on ordinary singlespeed bicycles, before MTB/BMX/Trials ever existed. The change from screw on hubs was pretty quick once multi geared setups got popular and the inherent flaw of running the hub bearings inboard of the gear sprockets (Bending and breaking back axles) and using a screw on sprocket mounting when gear ratios were heading towards 1:1 (Not to mind the shock loadings from trials) became obvious. My guess is the only reason this hasn't been done already is because Shimano don't make trials specific drivetrain parts (Their DX BMX hubs use a splined sprocket mounting though)...

maybe the spline idea is a way forward?

keep the comments coming!

cheers ashley

Very much doubt the weight will be anything to shout home about. A front Pro2 is heavier than a rear Try-all, so the rear is going to be a lot heavier. It's not like there's any demand for a 116 fixed screw on hub, we already have like 10 to choose from. And as far as I can see the mod Pro2 offers no advantages over what we already have.

a mod pro 2 would have a disc mount possibly? which currently no cassette hubs have for a mod, except a modified king.

ash

[AdamR28]

adam, i will speak with owen at hope this week.

Sweet... obviously after 2 years that number of 'guaranteed' sales for them has passed, the market has changed now...! Would be good to get some leverage towards a 110mm version of a Pro2T though, as from what can be read above it would be popular.

[Joe Papasnap Maher]

the other side to the argument, a screw on cog on a wheel is easy to remove with a piece of chain and a bench vice, easier manufacture than a spline as well.

Id just like to point out. Not everyone owns a Bench Vice.

Sweet... obviously after 2 years that number of 'guaranteed' sales for them has passed, the market has changed now...! Would be good to get some leverage towards a 110mm version of a Pro2T though, as from what can be read above it would be popular.

Amen

[Ashley Smith]

Sweet... obviously after 2 years that number of 'guaranteed' sales for them has passed, the market has changed now...! Would be good to get some leverage towards a 110mm version of a Pro2T though, as from what can be read above it would be popular.

its something that got mentioned when me and wayne was down at hope, especially incorporating the disc mount, the only problem you ever have with designing mod hubs is the lack of "standard" i.e. monty 106mm frame, 110mm frames and 116mm frames, this often throws the disc mount position out a mile and requires the use of 3mm spacers and different end caps, similar to the new range of try all hubs, never a problem when working with a stock frame configuration.

whats your views on a screw on stock rear hub with no disc mount?

cheers

ashley

Id just like to point out. Not everyone owns a Bench Vice.

Amen

good point

[Alex-Mitchinson]

a mod pro 2 would have a disc mount possibly? which currently no cassette hubs have for a mod, except a modified king.

Sorry, I meant the fixed Pro2 has no advantages over what is already available. A Pro2 rear freehub with a disk mount would be amazing!

[craigjames]

i think ive got to agree with the majority here. there's a big choice of screw on rear hubs for mods. apart from the through axle your hub offers nothing different. i really think the idea of a 110mm spaced rear freewheel hub would sell very well, great hope quality and with the range of mod stock frames about now youve got 3 markets you're opening the hub up to... mod, bmx and modstock. just makes more sense in my mind. than buying a hope hub only to have to stick someone else's freewheel on it. a mini pro2 would just be a complete package.

[psycholist]

Id just like to point out. Not everyone owns a Bench Vice.

Even if you have a bench vice, which is more preferable from a safety point of view - having to apply a large amount of force (Which will vary a lot depending on how hard the parts are screwed into each other, corrosion and the parts themselves) through a relatively small area (Freewheel tool/chain whip) or applying a smaller much more predictable force through a cassette lockring. I know which I'd rather have to do. It's been years since I've even skinned my knuckles fixing bikes and that's because I'm paranoid about the techniques and tools I use and avoid any job which involves nasty consequences from applying a lot of force to tools that may or may not slip and to parts that may loosen suddenly (Most dangerous repair jobs can be done safely by thinking more carefully about how to go about them though).

A quick post-it page calculation here says the OD of a freehub spline is about the same as the 1.37" thread diameter used for screw on sprockets/freewheels (Not a big surprise since freehub splines were almost certainly sized to give the same sprocket size selection as existing screw on hubs), so there's no packaging reason for a splined freewheel to be impossible. If White Bros made splined ENO's I reckon they'd see sales of the screw on version plummet as compatible hubs and cranks are introduced. If I was designing it I'd use a symmetrical version of the freehub spline rather than the existing one which forces a particular direction and orientation for cassette sprockets (Very important for gear shifting, irrelevant for singlespeed) as this would allow Left hand side drivetrains to be easily accommodated as well.

Having a disk mount available for the hub that fits the same spline on the other side of the hub would allow for a symmetrical hub that could be run as a flip-flop for singlespeeders wanting the option of two gears or to be able to change from fixed to freewheeling by running a fixed gear on one side and a freewheel on the other as well as allowing disks to be run for trials (Nothing to unscrew for backwards landings if you have a splined disk mount). You'd also have a symmetrical hub which should make for easier manufacturing and lower part count since both bearings and axle ends would be the same.

[Jamie_Neal]

its something that got mentioned when me and wayne was down at hope, especially incorporating the disc mount, the only problem you ever have with designing mod hubs is the lack of "standard" i.e. monty 106mm frame, 110mm frames and 116mm frames, this often throws the disc mount position out a mile and requires the use of 3mm spacers and different end caps, similar to the new range of try all hubs, never a problem when working with a stock frame configuration.

Just solved the problem yourself. Sell the hub specific to the frame type and give the option for after market end caps if the person changes the frame/sells on the hub.

Similar to the hope bulb where you can change between QR or bolt through.

[Ashley Smith]

Just solved the problem yourself. Sell the hub specific to the frame type and give the option for after market end caps if the person changes the frame/sells on the hub.

Similar to the hope bulb where you can change between QR or bolt through.

this was mentioned by hopes designer, the only the problem forseeable with this is the amount of small parts in relation to cost of manufacture, they already make a huge selection of hubs for other markets with almost every configuration available.

i like the idea that try-all are currently using with theres.

cheers ashley

[liam-pantera]

I think the axel design is far better than that of a tryall or even the new echo hub , the problem with using m6 bolts is that they just cant be tightened enough but with a spanner and 15mm nut they will stay realy tight and make the chain tension more reliable

Im not sure about the screw on aspect of the hub though i think that the echo style cog is much better deisgn and enables cog and gear changes to be done in minuits not hours .

[Luke Rainbird]

Would it not be possible to use the main body of the 135mm Pro IIt, but with a shortened freehub body (and axle, of course) to reduce the overall width? I guess this'd throw the disc mount out a little though.

If you're in the mood for knocking up a load of funky business, I'll place an order now for a non-disc 135mm singlespeed freehub

[Dan6061]

Mod ProII. Disc mount. 32h + 36h. Do it.

[JonMack]

Mod ProII. Disc mount. 32h + 36h. Do it.

Pretty much.

My thoughts on this are as follows.

I don't carry a spanner around with me when i'm out riding, so a through axle is pretty much useless.

There are already plenty of screw on hubs to chose from, you should make a cassette hub with a disc mount, but try to keep the weight down with a std. axle rather than a through axle, as everyone is fussing over weight these days (myself included).

Basically what Dan said, 110mm spaced ProII with a IS disc mount in 32/36h. Will be one of the best things ever.

Although I'll stick to my King BMX ISO

[Tim/Trialsin USA]

We told them this years (probably 2 years plus now) ago and actually pre-ordered 120 hubs... still nothing. Probably won't be long before someone comes along and fills the gap in the market, which is a shame.

There was one, Echo. It was as reliable as Gordon Brown promising tax relief.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Tim/Trialsin USA

[PaRtZ]

There was one, Echo. It was as reliable as Gordon Brown promising tax relief.

as you say though, it hardly "filled the gap" sorta just fell on the shelf and then rolled off promptly

[eskimo]

Dont really know too much about these kind of hubs, but having to carry a spanner about with you incase the hub comes loose on the axil would be quite annoying.

Do people not carry pedal spanners around?

how about titanium notched snail cams? i use monty snails atm, they seem ok with the notches in

the other side to the argument, a screw on cog on a wheel is easy to remove with a piece of chain and a bench vice, easier manufacture than a spline as well.

a mod pro 2 would have a disc mount possibly? which currently no cassette hubs have for a mod, except a modified king.

Titanium, produced/ manufactured in Britain could be expensive. Well even in Taiwan it'll be expensive to machine. I'd stick with Chromo.

I too don't have a bench vice, therefore the loving of the Echo hub. Which has got better over time it seems.

Profile also have disc mounted 116mm hubs. Not many people use them though?

I'd say the PROII 116mm hub is a definite seller;

32h & 36h drillings allowing bmx and trials use on numerous rims. Plus 32h is starting to happen in the bmx world with stronger spokes being produced. Proper have 32h rims now too. I think Alex may have done some previously too.

I think the disc mount should be ditched, most people don't want them along with bmxers. I'm only saying bmxers as the market is there.

Also with the single speed and no disc mount you've got the all wanted large spaced flanges.

Is the reason for not making the PROII in this size originally due to having to manufacture a new driver for the hub rather than the previous cassette style driver?

But i'd think to sell in the bmx world you would have to go with the 3 piece axle which is a bigger market? Or is this hub also aimed at another market other than trials & bmx?

[basher]

Profile also have disc mounted 116mm hubs. Not many people use them though?

I'd say the PROII 116mm hub is a definite seller;

32h & 36h drillings allowing bmx and trials use on numerous rims. Plus 32h is starting to happen in the bmx world with stronger spokes being produced. Proper have 32h rims now too. I think Alex may have done some previously too.

I think the disc mount should be ditched, most people don't want them along with bmxers. I'm only saying bmxers as the market is there.

Also with the single speed and no disc mount you've got the all wanted large spaced flanges.

Profile do make a disc hub but like king hubs the dis mounts aren't right and need modding for them to work.

Think your getting yourself a little confused with with the spaceing, 116mm hub is no good as frames are spaced 116 leaveing no room for snail cams meaning they would have to be ran on the outside which could be a problem with frames suchs as deng ones due to the small dropouts. The hub needs to be a 110 so cams can be ran on the inside. Only frames i can see not configureing with this are monty due to it being a 106 spaceing because there c**ts making you have to run there hubs; and onza with there new frames that have inbuilt chain tugs but it hasnt be specified whether the spaceing on these frames will be 110 or 116.

The disc mount shouldnt be ditched as double disc is a big market in mods now, if hope did want to also target bmxers then it would be simple enough to do a non disc version which would keep everyone happy.

[Skoze]

With regard to the "i don't carry a spanner" argument, i'm sure that if you had something like this hub that needed one, you'd take a spanner with you

[Josh Greenan!!!!!!!!!!]

It looks a great hub but i really wish they would bring a free hub out, If they did i would defo buy it.

[Matthew_Gibson]

if they did bring a free hub one out would that not bring in the BMXers out there?

[JonMack]

Profile do make a disc hub but like king hubs the dis mounts aren't right and need modding for them to work.

I've got snail cams then a 1.5mm washer on the inside of the dropout and my rear disc works fine with my King.

[basher]

I've got snail cams then a 1.5mm washer on the inside of the dropout and my rear disc works fine with my King.

Fair enough, but it is widely known for king hubs haveing to have the disk mounts faced shaven down to get the disk brake to line up and work because the bmx disc king hub uses a 26inch hub shell.

[BenLeacock™]

Intresting, like everything hope guess it will live up to a desent standad/quality.