Bionic Balls Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Do bike companies actually carry out any metallurgical investigation on these things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 They could not have carried out any conclusive report as they did not have all the facts it seems.To carry out a proper failure investigation they would have needed the crank also or the information about the cranks with pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Do bike companies actually carry out any metallurgical investigation on these things?Not many, certainly no trials companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0zzy Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 No offense either but I am a mechanical engineer that specializes in failure mode and effect analysis.made my day daves bikes always in smooth run order and always uses the correct components for the jobs. i can assure you dave never used these spacers, as i was there at brimham comp when the bottom bracket snapped, and there was loads of guys that saw it snap without these other spacers. i can see tartybikes side of view. however how can they prove he used them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 however how can they prove he used them ?Neither of us can prove either way, all we are able to go on is what Dave has said to us and what arrived back here. I have already offered to give Dave a steel axle which I have spare which will get him up and running again. I will speak with Reset yet again to see if it's possible to arrange a spare axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 however how can they prove he used them ?Dave wanted us to try and sort out his warranty stuff with Reset. He said to Ali that he'd used spacers with that BB. The BB broke a spacers-width from the end of the stop. The box had two BB spacers in it. If Dave is now saying that apparently he hasn't actually used these spacers, despite him saying he had, the BB breaking a spacers-width from the BB stop and there being the aforementioned spacers in the box with it, how is that our fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Do bike companies actually carry out any metallurgical investigation on these things?Most companies will simply consult a materials property chart when chosing what material to use for a component. They may have carried out some FEA on the designs to find out the likely stress raisers and highlight any possible design flaws but beyond that it's down to testing (probably on a bike using prototype components if at all) before going into production. Ti axles have been used for years on square taper BB's and in BMX uses but there aren't many (if any) that have been used on ISIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 you trying to say im a basher ??Haha, nah definately not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Ti axles have been used for years on square taper BB's and in BMX uses but there aren't many (if any) that have been used on ISIS.FSA have been doing them for a while - I'm running one at the mo that's second or third hand that's getting on a bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 ali, ll be totally honest when i spoke to you on the phone i think i just agreed with what ever you were telling me at the time, which was summit like i think i just fitted what ever came at the time and to be honest i couldnt really remember... that was atleast after a month after i sent it to tarty bikes. after all i snapped the bb at brimham rocks, which was june on july then i went to chine in aug, and it was after i came back i got round to sending it.and yea im pretty sure there was 2 spacers in the box i sent back, so tarty bikes must have ASSUMED that i used them.thats the first time i seen the pic, and i can defo say that the spacer is one that come with the MOE bb that Ben savage gave me from his van on the day, in a bag which says 1 trial old bb, after i changed the bb i just threw all the stuff in to the bag as i was in a hurry, and i DID not fit the spacers to the MOE bb then.... when ben says he helped change it he let me borrow his bb tool, said summit about not getting his fingers all grease.... infact my friend nick done most of the work, as hes hard and dont mind getting his hands dirty.... and after being told that my bb snapped because i had the spacers one i asked both nick and ben if there was because i was unsure as it was long time ago, they both will tell you that there werent any.also ali, was the spacer on the axle when you opened the box? if i snapped it in a field how is there 2 spacers? the other one must be on the floor??just to make my self clear i dont have a problem with tarty or resset, my point is that they are assuming i used summit that i can honestly say i didnt, and the concultion to the failure was just a possibilitymaybe if my name was Ben Slinger or Pat Donavan i might have had a replacement?Looking at this form a 3rd person point of view, there's more proof that you did use the spacers than you didn't. It's a crappy situation to be in, but you're in it and trying to say you didn't use the spcers makes you look like your lying just to get a replacement (i'm not saying you are but that's what it looks like).You're in a similar situation I recently saw on TV. This Australian woman tried to enter the USA for a 2 month stay with her chef knives and work resumes. Of course they thought she was going to work during her stay which she isn't allowed to do. She said in her interview when asked why she has her resumes on her she replied 'I'm always looking for work'. She wasn't let into the country even though she said she brought the knives to cook for the people where she was staying and her resumes were just in her bag where she always has them and didn't remove them.They're all simple and innocent mistakes to make but she lost all credibility by what she said and did.also i bought the bb from tarty bikes not resset, the way i understand it the warranty i have is with tartybikes?No, the warranty is with Reset. It really has nothing to do with tartybikes they're just the messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) is the reset bb covered for trials? and will we ever get this type of bottom bracket for trials? Edited December 8, 2009 by ogre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 is the reset bb covered for trials? and will we ever get this type of bottom bracket for trials?I know of a man who uses one yes. No complaints so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 is the reset bb covered for trials? and will we ever get this type of bottom bracket for trials?Well seeing as though the whole issue was about the spaces and not the fact that it was bought from tartybikes which is a biketrials shop i guess they do.Are you just talking about external bearing BBs? If so echo did them but they didn't sell well as you couldn't run a front freewheel with them. I loved mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 is the reset bb covered for trials? and will we ever get this type of bottom bracket for trials?If someone comes up with an ISIS splined axle for one of those, that would be nice. If I had the tools I'd do it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 team no ffw would love them! i don't get how the axle is held in place, do you pinch it all in place with big washers from the crank to the bb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 To be honest, I think a pair of lockrings a la chris king HD axles would do the job just fine.There would have to be something in the place like that, else the axle would slide around. Two-piece cranks like my Charge cranks work by applying pressure on the BB with the crank, but this wouldn't work for trials as we tend to use rather small chainrings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scary_jeff Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) What's the harm in sending this part to Matt to analyse properly if there is no chance of a warranty replacement anyway? Whether the spacer was there or not, the failure could still be down to a manufacturing fault, which coincidentally happened to line up with some other features of the assembly.A lecturer at uni had a car part fail which the manufacturer told him was not covered under warranty because it was caused by bad driving style. He took some images using an SEM which clearly showed a casting defect resulting in a weak point in the part, sent them to the manufacturer, and they paid for the replacement Edited December 8, 2009 by scary_jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Burrows Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 is the reset bb covered for trials? and will we ever get this type of bottom bracket for trials?We could do, but what would be the point? Most external BBs are crap and to get something good you have to spend £65 on a Hope, which is only for the bearings and cups. The only reason those BBs came about was because the standard BB shell is too small for todays riding, and has been for many many years. The only trials company to show any movement on this front are Deng's new 24" frames with spanish BBs. Almost all high end MTBs are moving to integrated and over-sized BB designs with press fit bearings, for use with 24mm and 30mm axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic Balls Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 What's the harm in sending this part to Matt to analyse properly if there is no chance of a warranty replacement anyway? Whether the spacer was there or not, the failure could still be down to a manufacturing fault, which coincidentally happened to line up with some other features of the assembly.A lecturer at uni had a car part fail which the manufacturer told him was not covered under warranty because it was caused by bad driving style. He took some images using an SEM which clearly showed a casting defect resulting in a weak point in the part, sent them to the manufacturer, and they paid for the replacement I expect Matt's time is probably taken up with work that he's getting paid for... When I was at university someone told me about some Bontrager cranks that had broken by fatigue, clearly starting from where the "B" logo had been stamped...IE: a design fault..got his money back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 FSA have been doing them for a while - I'm running one at the mo that's second or third hand that's getting on a bit...I agree I had one for ages it was fabulous went through a good few bikes and is on one of my mates now. do they do one the length of the reset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Dave wanted us to try and sort out his warranty stuff with Reset. He said to Ali that he'd used spacers with that BB. The BB broke a spacers-width from the end of the stop. The box had two BB spacers in it. If Dave is now saying that apparently he hasn't actually used these spacers, despite him saying he had, the BB breaking a spacers-width from the BB stop and there being the aforementioned spacers in the box with it, how is that our fault?how has this got into this???? iv said that i didnt use any spacers for ages now... and yes when i phoned up to see why it was taking so long, about a month after i sent it to tarty i spoke to ali on the phone and he said summit about spacers, and i just agreeded and i think i said summit like i just put on what ever come, after that it made me think what spacers is he on about, and i couldnt think of any spacers, then i asked nick and ben if i had any, as i didnt think sothe next time i phoned, probly about 2-3 laters im sure i pointed out that i never used anyand the last time i phone, i remember speaking to adam, who did offer me a spare koxx axle fair play to him...any way to be honest i work full time, often work 12 hour days, so stuff like spacers and bb replacements isnt really top of my list, i got so much more things to worry about mark its not tartybikes fault, and i might have come to the same conclutions if i didnt have any infoany way all i wanted to is have any others snapped a RESET bb and had a replacement, so can we get back on topic..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well its not really clear because you said you used them to Ali on the phone. The fact is its already been dealt with and there is to be no warranty. To me personally it looks like you are not being honest with what's happened.Its got nothing to do with me and people here seem to think I'm an argumentative person so I'm going to leave it there and stay out of it.Good luck anyway mate.ok yet again, read my topic, nothing to do with me that its got to this...and if im lying, why woud i say that yea i agreeded with ali on the phone.... if i was gonna lie i think it would be best no to admit to that...i dont want to be argumentative i just want to defend myself if people think im lying... im no pete wright or whatever he was called Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr ailsbury Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9001509/Anthony-Worrall-Thompson-cautioned-over-cheese-and-wine-theft.html That Tarty Adam guy's also been caught nicking cheese and wine from Tesco. Seems like a pretty sketchy guy probably shouldn't buy stuff off him in future 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann2707 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 He looks so good for 60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Matt- having read through some of this (though not all as I got bored reading the same thing over and over and over and over), do you still maintain that any force acting on the axle is a point load at it's end? Of course for the purpose of maths it can be treated as such, but if you actually drew the loading or did FEA on the situation surely there would be a force distribution along the mounting surface which produces non linear loading and would indicate a likely failure point... Meh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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