FamilyBiker Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 i cant proof that,youre the welder,not me,but i always thought stainless steels are more brittle than "normal" alloys. think i read it has something to do with the missing austenite crystals,the higher the grade,the less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Sorry I don't profess to be a scientist lol I work with the stuff every day and it is stronger than mild steel, it's also a lot harder too. I'm just getting ideas together at the mo the first frame will be 304/316 cost depending although il get it through work so it will probley be cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 constant oscillation strenght is the factor which you should care about,thats what i meant. just saying,when using a noble steel i´d deffo go for the lowest alloyed one because of that,thats less workhardening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 constant oscillation strenght is the factor which you should care about,thats what i meant. just saying,when using a noble steel i´d deffo go for the lowest alloyed one because of that,thats less workhardening. Time will tell . But whatever the weather I'm confident enough in my work to give it a try if it dosent work out il stick to good old mild steel . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I'd like to take this opportunity to accuse almost all of you you of mob mentality. Sure - there's better welders out there, but I think you all seem to be a bit preoccupied with the appearance of the weld, rather than its strength. I know I don't know much/anything about welding, but I know that a bad looking weld isn't always shit. My frames have had welds that look similar to that, but the shortest lived one was 9 months. I think the point here is that welding is something of an art and a good welder takes pride in the appearance of the finished work as well as the structural integrity. If you're going to set up a business making custom bike frames (particularly if you're charging reasonable money for them) then the finished product needs to be pretty good. I remember having a dig at an early Marino frame on OTN and was properly booted out of the discussion because I hadn't realised how cheaply he was pushing out the frames and accepted that if you're buying a custom frame for £140 then you can accept a lower finish quality. When JAF were posting pics of frames it was the paint finish that looked dodgy to me but I kept my mouth shut because everyone seemed to be raving about them and I didn't want to step on anyone's toes but the pictures posted in the thread are awful. Now whether that's because it was done in a rush or whether it was an early example I don't know but at the end of the day if I'd spent £300 or whatever on that frame I'd be sending it back because it looks like it was made in a shed by a school kid learning to weld. I know aesthetics aren't everything, but at the end of the day in custom frame building I think it counts for quite a lot. Not having a dig at you, just trying to put some context to the mob mentality that's been shown, particularly when JAF were being pushed as the next big thing (i.e. a new Leeson) and the whole Marino vs. JAF thing making it sound like he really knew his shit when if what's in this thread really was the standard being put out then something's wrong! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Started repairing welds today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Them welds look rubbish! About on par with the welds on my standard STA500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Them welds look rubbish! About on par with the welds on my standard STA500 Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 for me they look pretty good to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Before i welded the crack: After I welded the crack : Before: After: The frame will be finished and in its way back mikey tomorrow thanks for letting me help u mikey . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*gentlydoesit Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Ok you are my hero On another note though, i asumed youd use a higher grade of stainless bud, bionic balls was quite correct in what he said chttp://www.makeitfrom.com/compare-materials/?A=Hot-Finished-AISI-316-Stainless-Steel&B=SAE-AISI-4130-SCM430-1.7218-25CrMo4-G41300-Cr-Mo-Steel The costs weigh similar between quenched and tempered 4130 and 316 stainless but the chromo owns when it comes to strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Ok you are my hero On another note though, i asumed youd use a higher grade of stainless bud, bionic balls was quite correct in what he said chttp://www.makeitfrom.com/compare-materials/?A=Hot-Finished-AISI-316-Stainless-Steel&B=SAE-AISI-4130-SCM430-1.7218-25CrMo4-G41300-Cr-Mo-Steel The costs weigh similar between quenched and tempered 4130 and 316 stainless but the chromo owns when it comes to strength. Very true , it's not a given yet I'm going to make ONE stainless on to get a battering as a proto and if it holds up if anyone wants one they can have one. Also I will be using the tried and tested Reynolds steel that the Leeson frames were made of . And for the record kris Leeson is a very good friend of mine and I will be talking to him and his dad soon for any experience they can offer . I did speak to kris to day and he said none if the Leeson frames were heat treated as they didn't need it with the 531 Reynolds tubing . Nothing is a certainty yet until I'm fully confident they can hold out otherwise I won't be selling any. Edited September 17, 2013 by Neon-trials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*gentlydoesit Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Aah reynolds... dude, given your standards, understanding and competance i think your frames will be well saught after. Mad respect on sorting that frame for the dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Aah reynolds... dude, given your standards, understanding and competance i think your frames will be well saught after. Mad respect on sorting that frame for the dude. Thank you very much mate It's welded better now although I can't guarantee the construction of the frame . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Also condider T45 tubing, stronger than 4130 and probably a bit easier/cheaper to startup making custom frames with, progress to the more expensive reynolds tubing when your more comfortable with the fabrication of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mechanic Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Reynolds 931 looks a good one a bit expensive but they do recommend it for ATB rather than the 953 which although stronger is a lot more lightweight and may not take the sort of stress a trials bike has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Reynolds 931 looks a good one a bit expensive but they do recommend it for ATB rather than the 953 which although stronger is a lot more lightweight and may not take the sort of stress a trials bike has. All the tubing help is much appreciated after all il be making them for the trials world it looks like I'm gonna be testing a lot of materials before I decide on one thanks to everyone for great feedback Regards . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) i would rely on what leeson,marino,jaf and so on have proven with their stuff. test frames,early products:mild steels,maybe crmo if youre confident with mitering and stuff and a miscut tube isnt an issue anymore(could happen,no?) production frames:4130 or 4140 crmo,with 4130 a bit lighter because of the higher tensile strength,where the 4140 is weldable with less "moving"in the material due to heat,and a bit cheaper. later on i´d make individual stuff,if anyone wants to break his neck using tange prestige tubing on a trials bike its customers choice(mean example lol) also if youre really serious with this youll recognize soon,theres a market for lighter stuff than 2500g for a frame,you should consider heat treating below frame weights of 2200g Edited September 17, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*gentlydoesit Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Ill take one in that maraging steel 0_o , ill just go and remortguage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trials-Mikey Posted September 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Just a quick question, I I am keeping this frame raw now how many layers of laquer will I need. I would rather it didn't rust and then eventually crack ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) before a frame cracks from corrosion its more likely to crack from the load intervals its going through... ...rust is ugly though better go over it with some chrome paint,then laquer.theres hardly any clear coat that doesnt get broken through by corrosion Edited September 17, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williams Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Amazing welding there dude! I know how hard it is to weld so that is amazing! If you want someone to try your frame, I'd be up for it, I would pay you for the frame etc of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*gentlydoesit Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Family biker beat me too it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) yes,yes i did haha u-brakes with nokon(or alligator?) hoses... does it make them real brakes? just joking bud Edited September 17, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.