boon racoon Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 to clarify..is that gaping hole actually intended for an extra BB position or not?!looks whack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poopipe Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 to clarify..is that gaping hole actually intended for an extra BB position or not?!looks whackIt looks (to me) like a way of keeping the frame stiff in the absence of a seattube - which is an interesting idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishayton Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 I like the colour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 I just thought... all you moaners out there are saying parts are similar or stupid without putting any real thought into it - The whole seat tube area is very dissimilar to the Zoos. Yes it may have gussets, but the actual structure is massively different... the top tube doesnt bend into the seat tube like the Zoo, it stays straight and has the vertical "extra bb shell" which is completely different, and may stiffen the back end and brake area really well. The headtube cnc peice may look thin and weak from the side, but the force wont be coming from the side, it will be coming from underneath. And the shape of it could be such that it is exceptionally stiff in that direction. The two welds may dissipate the stress so each weld takes half the force that just one would take. So think about it before slagging it off... "Horseless carriage...!? It'll never catch on..."P.S I'm more than willing to test the headtube cnc area myself if any of you lovely people at onza would like me too... No seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walleee Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) I just thought... all you moaners out there are saying parts are similar or stupid without putting any real thought into it - The whole seat tube area is very dissimilar to the Zoos. Yes it may have gussets, but the actual structure is massively different... the top tube doesnt bend into the seat tube like the Zoo, it stays straight and has the vertical "extra bb shell" which is completely different, and may stiffen the back end and brake area really well. The headtube cnc peice may look thin and weak from the side, but the force wont be coming from the side, it will be coming from underneath. And the shape of it could be such that it is exceptionally stiff in that direction. The two welds may dissipate the stress so each weld takes half the force that just one would take. So think about it before slagging it off... "Horseless carriage...!? It'll never catch on..."P.S I'm more than willing to test the headtube cnc area myself if any of you lovely people at onza would like me too... No seriouslyMate, of course the force is going to be distributed between the two weld's, think about hooking. The bottom of the head tube is trying being held up while the riders weight is pushing down, and the leverage created (by the forks steerer) means the the top of the headtube will probobly be acting to compress the weld at the top towards the top tube (you won't see this compression as it is TINY)I think that thebottom weld would go before the first for hooking move's, hopping on the front wheel would put more tensile stress on the top weld.Having said that, it might be strong enough, i'd like to see some FEA analysis of it for a guide.... Edited March 13, 2006 by jake1516 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 rattle rattleIt was just an example... I don't know and you don't know how it will perform, my point is that I'm sure the guys at Onza will have put some thought into it... like someone said, the company is in it to make money so surely something expensive to make will be tested so it actually works, otherwise the company wont make any money at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walleee Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) Doesn't matter what 'tests' they do, they mean bugger all without actual result's, which is why i'd like to see the FEA analysis on the HT. I actually do like the frame, but i'd be looking for proof that it's strong.Infact, FEA on the welds wouldn't really be accurate, it's going to depend on the quality of the weld and other factors.......... Edited March 13, 2006 by jake1516 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Bit o.t and my knowledge of working metals and frames is prety limited but would it be a good idea to have more of the frame attached to where the fork goes though the frame? like have metal wrapped round it and have a huge weld area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunkey_monkey_boy Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 LMAOwhat the hell else are they gonna start one for u idiot, anyone who starts a companie is in it to make moneythat comment is so shit ur goin in my signiture.and your such a twat your never going in my signiture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRtZ Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 I like the colour Very neutral response well done lolYou're right ogre too, but Im thinking that the weight of such design would make it impractical for the lightness freaks Anyway everyone stop bitching, you either like it or don't, no one should care either way as Mike said its still a proto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOLO Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) Let me just say that without CNC machining and aluminium fabrication all frames would look the same and weigh a ton. OHHHH MYYYY GOD !!! this just isnt true.i dont mind the whole alu thing that much, and iv just been riding an xtp 26 (best frame iv ever ridden) for 2 months..BUTthese 'things' just arnt really bike frames to me. its just a lump of over drilled metal, that holds a fork,BB and wheel.i bet it would be possible to build a steel frame the same weight and stiffness as that,.in fact im gonna say IT IS possible.also has evryone overlooked the fact that some frames dont really end up being nicely stiff, they justend up feeling rigid and dead,with no spring,boing,or bounce !iolo Edited March 13, 2006 by IOLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan6061 Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Bikerider - In reply to your last post, I agree with you on some things, but in a different way... Headtube area - I'm not to keen on this too. Looks like it could crack at the bottom, next to the headtube. But I have no idea really, just a guess. If you made the CNC'd bits a bit bigger on the headtube, it'll look (and could be) stronger. Those bits at the headtube just look too thin to me. Internal headubes aren't bad, The Cane Creak headset cups just cracked. I think. I think people just had problems with the headsets, not the headtube. But I prefer External all the same Dropouts - I have a Zona, and not being bias or anything, But I like the dropouts. They may look huge in pics, but when you actually see one, they're about the same length as T-Pro ones. Which don't look stupidly long...to me Actually..the dropouts on this Proto' look tiny compared to Zona ones... 'The mess in the centre' - I agree with you on this...kinda. But I'll put it my way. From looking at the pictures, In my opinion, the 'second bb' looks rubbish. But looks like it's there for a reason. It looks like it stops the frame from flexing from the brake. Like on the Zonas, Zoo's etc, you have the bits going from chainstay to chainstay, at the top, near the backwheel. Looks like it's for that, it just looks rubbish. The gussets don't look to nice either. I think you should scrap the idea of CNC'd bits there, and just whack a 'normal' tube there going vertically, it'll look much nicer to me. 'Onza copying everyone' - I disagree. Yes, the T-pro's are basically levelbosses, and Zonas are close to Zoo's. But in reality, they're not. If you look into it, like geometry etc, they're completely different. I can't think of what the: T-Bird, T-Vee, T-Mag could be. The T-Lite looks like a Monty. But isn't. If you look at Onza's older frames (2000) then they're original. Especially the T-Mags and T-Pros. With the square tubing etc. With something like a 900mm wheelbase So yeah, Some of Onzas frames are similar to other companies in looks, but really, they're not. Oh yeah, And I'm pretty sure no-one here will stop buying from Onza altogether, just becuase this may be a bad desgin. I don't agree with you on 'it's not doing the Onza name any good at all' And I'm sure that most people here will aswell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai the Socket Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 from the responce of everyone on here it should be called a "T-Shit"As the bike is Onza and I ride for Koxx I am obviously against the bike and company in total. Everyone go and buy koxx stuff. It comes with lifetime warrenty, will NEEEEVVAA break and if you do i will eat my brand new hope pro trials hub which you should also buy.I know about 94234893453j3j234 people around me with them and no-ones has broken EVER and every other hub I have tried has broken within about 1 hour riding about.Honest.Waynio.......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siders77 Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) Nice frame. Edited March 13, 2006 by Siders77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 nick remember my other post i put?here it is again:2 words, first word starts in "F" and ends in "K" 2nd starts in "O" and ends in "F" do it. your full of shit and dont even have a bike, who are you to judge on???? haha. you bike less homo!!!!!you really should keep your face away from me, cos it would look worse than it does now if you aint careful!!!(altho it prob cant get any worse eh???)there was no need for your post. so here HAVE one back.also has evryone overlooked the fact that some frames dont really end up being nicely stiff, they justend up feeling rigid and dead,with no spring,boing,or bounce !i would have put that Iolo but the problem is were dealing with 12-16 year olds (some of them) that dont understand the science of this kind of thing. thats way too complex when a kid gets on a trials bike he does a "back hop" what does that prove? you can get the bike on the back wheel? oh my god thats amazing. its all about the tubing and the feel, along with the geometry. when i go to koxx days im going to find out what kind of tubing is used on the belaey and caisso as the frames feel VERY similar in "feel" the way the alloy is and ridesthe idea of a trials bike is to make it ride correctly NOT for it to look great. thats what some people are missing, manufacturing wise. from what iv ridden, a zoo pitbull compared to even my levelboss rode without no feel to it. if you want to feel comfortable ride peoples bikes and stuff before buying stuff or take advice from people. but iv noticed alot of "feel" to a frame more than how a bike is set up.i liked the colour of that t-mag proto too matt black it looks fast just like the woodstock.Waynio.............................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve sturt Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 I dont like it much. The machined bits look weird. Saying this, I cans see why. The headtube bit is basically an "I" beam right? "I" Beams hold up houses. I think it has the pottential to be very strong. No one has ridden it yet, but popular opinion didacts that its shit!!!! I know I wouldnt like it. Ive never liked mods, but I reckon it needs to be given a chance. Its not worth falling out with people over the sake of a prototype frame that may or may not ever see production. Its not pretty, but neither are submarines, and you wouldnt want to sail underwater in anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunkey_monkey_boy Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 "I" Beams hold up houses. and you build houses out of bricks and mortar, aint likely to see a concrete koxx any time soon though are we?f**king 'tardnick remember my other post i put?here it is again:2 words, first word starts in "F" and ends in "K" 2nd starts in "O" and ends in "F" do it. your full of shit and dont even have a bike, who are you to judge on???? haha. you bike less homo!!!!!you really should keep your face away from me, cos it would look worse than it does now if you aint careful!!!(altho it prob cant get any worse eh???)there was no need for your post. so here HAVE one back.i f**king love you wayne totally with you and iolo about the feel of the bike and 95% of the forum not having a f**king clue what your on about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRtZ Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 95% of the forum not having a f**king clue what your on about...That 95% probably dont care that much? I know I don't, I know you're not having a go at me cos I haven't said anything about "how it feels just by looking at it" but still.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyroo Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) and you build houses out of bricks and mortar, aint likely to see a concrete koxx any time soon though are we?f**king 'tard'Cept the houses built out of I-beams, which tend to be the big ones that need to be stronger Edited March 14, 2006 by andyroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat hudson Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 i beams are made of steel though actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 what happend to "square" tubed frames like Pace RC250T etc etc. the skool of bikes that were so "in genius" to us.they went snap things move on get over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat hudson Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 totally with you and iolo about the feel of the bike and 95% of the forum not having a f**king clue what your on about... i'm pretty sure your going to be involved in that 95%. well, just looking at your posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve sturt Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 I beams get their strength from their shape not from the material, similar principle to a plate gusset. Think about it for a second. Im sure you have the intelligence. As for the chap who referred to me as a f**king tard. Hes not worth a mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanie-b Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) they went snap things move on get over itLol'd at that. This thread is (IMO) starting to get f**king ridiculous. The idea of the thread initially was to discuss Onza's new prototype mod frame, It's now a slagging match.I agree with previous comments on Onza's ideas, A few ideas are copied, CNC'ing,Different headtubes etc...Can you honestly tell me other companies don't do that? Most frames in the market now have CNC'd details.Onza are (IMO) an amazingly innovative company who deliver affordable yet quality frames, at 14 years old and on a shitty weekend job, Onza are a breath of fresh air for me, because they deliver, unexpensive. stylish frames that actually feel nice to ride In summary: Why the f**k are we all are arguing just because we like different bikes? We're all entitled to our own opinion...I do like the frame by the way Edited March 14, 2006 by deanie-b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 the idea of a trials bike is to make it ride correctly NOT for it to look great. thats what some people are missing, manufacturing wise. from what iv ridden, a zoo pitbull compared to even my levelboss rode without no feel to it. if you want to feel comfortable ride peoples bikes and stuff before buying stuff or take advice from people. but iv noticed alot of "feel" to a frame more than how a bike is set up. I've ridden Zoo Pythons, and they felt dead and lifeless to ride. My Zona on the other hand feels really flicky and nice. Holy f**k, it's got different geometry. I haven't liked the feel of any Zoo I've ridden, but that's largely due to me not liking the angles rather than not liking having CNC'd bits on there. The Zona feels really stiff (as the Zoo's do), but it also feels lively to ride due to the higher BB and shorter stays. Everyone's a winner? Iolo - got any designs that would have that much standover and clearance in all areas, as well as be the same weight and strength? Just thinking back to the Pashley which is one of the few frames that had more stand-over height in a Pitbull-esque way, and they seemed to be tanks? (At least Matt Tongue's did that was featured on S7 back in the day) I'm not saying "steel is heavy" or anything, but I'd be pretty surprised if you could get that frame similar to the design of that made out of steel. Good call by Mr. Steve anyway. I'm not saying it's going to be stiff/strong, but at least someone's noticed that i-beams are stiff structures, even if that point went slightly over some people's heads, naming no names Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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