Hehe, Chris you are officially an old giffer. I agree 100% though However, I like the idea of a good stereo in a car. It's the one place where you're often alone with time to kill and nothing else to do. So listening to some music makes sense. However, as far as I can tell, most people just want to play shite really loudly, rather than actually have a decent-sounding setup so my argument is a bit irrelevant. Surely you can see that the insurance companies are there as a backup for when things go spectacularly wrong? Like when you run into the back of someone, writing off their (£20k) car and giving them whiplash (another £30k). It's not 'wasted' money, that's a really stupid way of thinking of it If the cost of insurance is too much for you, then don't drive. Simple as that.