N.Wood Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Ok so say i need to chop some chicken in my kitchen. If you're vegetarian, maybe tofu.You've just realised your good old faithful knife isn't what it once was. its done. Past its useful life. You've got a bit of money in your pocket. Sure, you could buy some peanuts or coffee. But to get through that tesco Value chicken thigh meat you've purchased, you're gonna need a tool for the job.So you leave your little house after washing your hands of any meat/tofu juice. Off to your local homeware shop.You find the knife for you. This is the one, the daddy dawg. You use your hard-earned cash to buy it. Unfortunately, its useless because you can't leave the shop with it on your person because you don't have a knife license.What are you meant to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 It doesnt take a genius to work out the kind of people carrying a knife for malicous reasons.So why do we need a permit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 What are you meant to do?Make an order of £25 or more to qualify for free home delivery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted February 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 This whole thing about carrying weapons already exists. Sure, you don't get 10 years, but isn't it right you get a bollocking for anything over 3"?Or am I spurting out rubbish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich J Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Think it maybe slightly larger... 5 or 6 inches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish-Finger-er Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Im not sure it should be brought back but I believe that if you're caught carrying a knife/gun you should get an instant 10 years in prison, minimum.You can make knives illegal, but ive got a folding hand saw at home, 8 inches closed, 8 inch blade. its a saw, not a knife, but id cut you good with it, do you then have to bring in a permit for carrying all saws/hacksaw blades/jig saw blades. Then you get to hand axes, screwdrivers, drill bits,corkscrews, pretty much anything you can stab people with. If i felt the need to defend myself, and knew id get 10 years for being caught with a 2inch knife, id carry a 8 inch screwdriver instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHI-sam Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 how very creative n.wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Plod Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 You can make knives illegal, but ive got a folding hand saw at home, 8 inches closed, 8 inch blade. its a saw, not a knife, but id cut you good with it, do you then have to bring in a permit for carrying all saws/hacksaw blades/jig saw blades. Then you get to hand axes, screwdrivers, drill bits,corkscrews, pretty much anything you can stab people with. If i felt the need to defend myself, and knew id get 10 years for being caught with a 2inch knife, id carry a 8 inch screwdriver instead.And more than likely get yourself arrested for going equipped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Funny how nobody has answered my previous point.If somebody murdered a relative or friend, would you be happy to see them out of prison in 8 or so years?No, but at the same time, if the person who had 'murdered' my relative/friend turned out to be the wrong person, I'd feel even worse as the death of my relative/friend had resulted in the needless death of another person's relative or friend. Similarly, I'd rather they had to endure a shitty rest of their life in a prison. Just because prison sentences aren't given the correct length doesn't mean you should have the right to kill someone else. If the prison sentences were tougher, and prisons weren't as pleasant, then there'd be more of a deterrent, but equally, there's also the chance of attempting to reform people. I'm aware that it only works in a few cases, but I'd rather it worked in a few cases rather than just murdering people in cold blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish-Finger-er Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 And more than likely get yourself arrested for going equipped... surely its a lot easier to get out of, (and a better charge to be convicted of) than getting done carrying a knife."Ah crap, ive been at work today, must of left it in my pocket and not noticed (only works for tradesmen really)"or "Was in the middle of putting a new fuse in the plug on the tv/kettle/hairdrier,when the taxi turned up"Another little question if you dont mind, about going equipped, at what point does someone get prosecuted... take this for example, im a mechanic by trade, im also slightly dodgy by nature, but i quite often get phone calls off mates etc, telling me theyve locked their keys in their car etc. (ive had 2 off fish in the last 33 days FFS), now at work, ive got a few little bits ive obtained/bought, to allow me to get into locked cars (panel pump,couple of metal inserts from wiper blades,with a triangular cut out at the end,and a few bits of bent wire, along with some serrated plastic wedges), now the amount of times this would of come in handy with mates etc is unbelievable, would carrying this in the back of my car be classed as going equipped, or would they more than likely just believe i carried it round for when mates inevitably lock their keys in their car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich J Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 If you whacked a few other bits in there too, I doubt if stopped they would work out what that kit was for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edd91 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 NATIONAL SERVICE, and corporal punishment, bring them back and alot of things would change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beigemaster Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Yeah bringing back the death penalty would really deter people and we would end up with really low murder rates, just like in the U.S.A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish-Finger-er Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Yeah bringing back the death penalty would really deter people and we would end up with really low murder rates, just like in the U.S.A You think thats down to the death penalty? pretty sure its just down to the ready availability of guns, something which is slowly getting better/worse(dependant on whether you mean the availability, or the gun situation in the uk). Along with everyone being over familiar with guns.The trouble is, imo, gun control is almost too tight in this country as it is, as someone with a semi keen interest in shooting (something my dad was into when he was alive, which i never really bothered with, but kind of want to try now) its rather hard to get into, due to licensing (i primarily want a gun for small bore (.223 /.22 centrefire etc) hunting), cant get a gun without an FAC, cant really get an FAC for anything other than a shotgun without either being a member of a gun club (which you quite often cant do without an FAC, as there wary to take on new members) or having written permission to shoot (which is kind of hard to get when you cant actually make the offer to control pests for people, as you dont actually have a gun or a license for one at the moment) not only that, the easy option to getting a gun, is to join a target shooting club, get your FAC, get a gun, then go get written permission for hunting, but the local FAO will check with the gun club your a member of, when you last attended, and will suggest revoking your FAC if you dont attend regularly enough(which you wouldnt really if youd got a rifle to go rough shooting etc on a weekend).but the guns themselves are too easily available, shotguns are available for as little as £30 these days,rifles that where used in the wars (Mosin-Nagant rifles used in both the wars, as well as being the vasilly zeitsev sniper rifle of choice,and being featured in a fair few video games, are available for under £100, and would dispatch a human at a quarter of a mile quite easily) Handguns arent exactly that hard to get hold of either, its only really the sub machine guns, assault rifles and machine guns that are hard to get hold of(im not exactly gangster connected, im just a country boy, in the LDN endz it might be a different story) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hI-OOPS-CAPS Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 authorities just need to induce a bit more 'fear' into the people of society who would do such a crime. i read a court case where a man had beaten up some pensioner. there was evidence and everything, but it was his first offence and the judge was powerless against him.i mean, what sort of authority is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 You think thats down to the death penalty? pretty sure its just down to the ready availability of guns, something which is slowly getting better/worse(dependant on whether you mean the availability, or the gun situation in the uk). Along with everyone being over familiar with guns.I think that he was being sarcastic and using an analogy of a country that does have the death penalty, and yet still plenty of murder, to illustrate that the death penalty doesn't work. I agree. It's similar to our drug laws, which are well recognised by both experts and the police as being a negligible consideration to people that have or will use drugs. And as already mentioned, ultimately this whole punishment thing is like trying to stop the accident after it's happened - "Now that I've colided into this wall because my brakes were broken, if I fix my brakes, can I not hit the wall?". Nice logic. But then the argument is that the victims relations can be made to feel better through punishment and revenge (which it is a form of, if we are honest). I'm afraid that time would be better spent learning to accept a situation, as difficult as that might sound. Taking the line that killing is deserved, only compacts and justifies ones hate, which ultimately eats away at you. Taking the line of trying to understand and accept, cultivates much more desirable states for dealing with that which is unpleasant.I think really the questions are, what sort of behaviour and feeling do we want to put out into the world? Do we want to cultivate hate and anger? Or do we want to cultivate love and understanding? They all tend to perpetuate themselves. You only perpetuate, in a certain sense, what brought somebody to murder, if you support capital punishment. It's almost like you absorb somebody elses hate and anger (that which allowed them to kill) and then of course you end up expressing it, passing it on in other ways and probably feeding or nurturing the very feelings that contribute to more murder. Capital punishment has an inescapable emotional base, revolving around hate, angery and revenge. How else can we sentence sombody to death? We certainly don't if we choose love and understanding. After all, does the loving kind individual kill somebody he or she loves? No, they don't. And that's the point, the more we give out these latter emotions, the more they exist in our environment. The more we give out hate, anger and revenge, the more they exist in our environment. We can either break the chain, perpetuating a better one, or be a part of it. Join their game, or make your own one.I'm not saying that this is the easy way to be in response to the experience of having a loved one murdered, but ultimately it is better not just for you in this situation, but also in terms of everyone else in the future as a means of preventing what it is that now harms you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beigemaster Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I think that he was being sarcastic and using an analogy of a country that does have the death penalty, and yet still plenty of murder, to illustrate that the death penalty doesn't work.Correct. Two major problems with the dp. 1.Logical inconsistency. As someone mentioned before, you are punishing an individual for taking a life by taking a life. I know this may sound like I am being pedantic, but, the goverment/state MUST maintain the moral high ground or no one would obey it.2.If you try and justify the DP from a detterence point of view, you become open to all the usual problems realted with detterence theory such as the "Sherriff and the mob" analogy. This is that if you only punish people to deter other crimes then you have no reason not to punish the innocent, as long as it puts people off crime. In fact, if you follow that line of reasoning then the state should be regualry putting people to death (even if they are innocent) because if they don't then the state seems ineffective and the deterrent effect of the law is diminished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Jones Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Think it maybe slightly larger... 5 or 6 inches?If the weapon is over 4" long then you can get stopped. its if its under then its alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 3 inch blade or 6 inch blade, you could still kill some one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towler Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 If I was wrongly accused for something and given the death sentence... I would haunt you to f**k! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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