JD™ Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Hey all, So, some of you know I snapped my beloved Echo ES4 a little while back now just after I'd got it looking the way I wanted. Sad face. Being a very new business owner, the sum of my cash to replace it was the square root of f**k all. The only way I was going to get riding again was to go the Marino route - no matter how much I wanted to use it as an excuse to get a full build Hex/Fourplay. So I've borrowed an old Identiti Dr Jekyll frame to at least be able to play on in the mean time, and started thinking about the geo I wanted from my new frame. A little play on Ali Cs Hex 2 days after I snapped my frame confirmed exactly what I thought - I needed something like that. So with a little bit of tweaking, I sent the figures over to Marino and waited patiently. Then I waited some more, and then a bit more. I'm not slating him, he's clearly got a lot on, so today I finally got the drawings through for me to have a look at and confirm the start of the build... My only thought with that really is that I might wanna go a bit steeper/longer with the seat tube to give the saddle some clearance, but I reckon it should be OK. Any thoughts? The idea of this thread, by the way, is actually more of a place for me to dump my ideas and thought processes through the build to look back on at some point - hopefully I'll end up with a nice blend of old and new school street style. Edited March 1, 2011 by JD™ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I'm pretty sure that with the geo/tube length you've listed there that seat's not going to clear... A = 38mm, B = 105mm Super small pic but meh The 'A' height is measured from the top of where my seat-tube once was. The B is from the centre of that tube to the further point back on my seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Cheers, that's exactly what I thought, but needed that exact answer to let me know what I'd need. What's the best option? I figure that lengthening the chainstay length and steepening up the seat tube angle to 74 wouldn't have any negative effects on the geo... (but might make the stays more flexy?) The other option is lengthen the whole lot, but then I lose standover height. I'll just give him those measurements you've put there and ask him to tweak it. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Emailed Marino through, and he says he's sure that it's fine, because he's measured it as so: I wasn't so convinced, but I said that as long as he's absolutely certain that it'll clear then it's his problem if it doesn't and he can go on and build it. The saddle I'm planning on using could be very easily modified to fit around a tyre anyway so I'm cool for him to go ahead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirt jumper jake Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 It is awfully short gonna be a street machine i take it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I'd have gone shorter if I wasn't already hitting my feet on front wheels... But yea, old school machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 All looks good JD but your gonna look a bit of a gimp riding around with your name on the top tube (said in a newb stylee) You sticking with the orange colour scheme you were running with the ewd Echo? Saw the post about a deal with a client, whats getting re-painted?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 If he measured the 38mm up from where that line is, then it won't work in that he's measured a few mm up from the top of the post. I measured mine from literally the top of the seat tube, so you don't need to take into account the stack height of the post, if that makes sense. Seems a little... er... 'convenient' that it fits perfectly when I doubt it would. I'm assuming you meant seat stay length before, by the way - if that's the case, then nah it shouldn't be much of an issue lengthening then a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Isitafox- yea staying with orange and White, but doing it better this time. Basically I'll be sending most of my components off to this client to be painted either of those or the dark grey that's in my logo too. Not absolutely certain what's what just yet. Got another week or so before I need to strip it all down and get it to him. Mark- yea I think you're right, but apparently he added a bit onto the tyre radius anyway. A larger radius that a maxxis mobster, even though I'll be running holy rollers which I expect will be a bit lower profile. Meh, seat I'm planning is plastic so I'll just cut into it where needed lol. And yea I meant seat stays, and I'll make sure they're lengthened if he isn't sure. Edited March 1, 2011 by JD™ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 personally I would lengthen the seat tube a tad and maybe make it slightly steeper. I have never had any issues with my seat getting in the way. Other than that it looks pretty sweet, almost the same as the hex but with slightly shorter stays(a good thing). I could be tempted by a slightly steeper head angle though and use a slightly shorter stem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Ok, asked him to go to 74 degrees on that and take it to 270mm as I want to keep it a bit low for the look I like. Hopefully he hasn't somehow managed to start it all already! Decided against the steeper HA, it's already steeper than I'm used to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmiller403 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) cool to see this today, being the few days a month i check this forum, haha. just got some photos of my final build in today from marino. complete hex geo, only difference is that i am using a 120mm, integrated headtube vs a 120mm standard press cup. so lose about 5mm top and bottom. vert dropout. i was going to have disk tab and v mounts underneath the upper tube of the rear triangle, but geusing he forgot about that.so just dual disk on this one. all in all great buy, and great build. are you getting the same size seat tube diameter as the hex? its also always fun trying to interpet the messages from him as well. but def took me some time to get a final product. be pacient this took me about a month and a half. still a great guy to deal with. Edited March 2, 2011 by dmiller403 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Hey JD, I went with a higher seat tube because I thought the saddle would hit, too! Im glad I did. Pics You could also go with even shorter stays like I did. Steepen the seat tube and the tyre can get even closer. My stays are under 380 for sure. He didnt even use a gusset between the chainstays at the BB. If you have went for a 74HA its going to feel pretty long on the reach, even with a 1030 Wb, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Looking at the pics he's been sending through (that I'll put up once I'm on a computer) I'm pretty happy with the fact that it'll fit. Tha language barrier is definitely a tough one, I was on the verge of getting a big pad last night and drawing it out myself to check but I suppose you have to trust people who do it all day. 380 stays are because I already can't manual for shit, making it any harder would be silly! Stuck with the 73 head angle too. Thanks for all the info Ross, don't forget mine is +20 though so should already be a bit higher than yours. We'll see though, thanks for all the comments so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Hey JD, I went with a higher seat tube because I thought the saddle would hit, too! Im glad I did. Pics You could also go with even shorter stays like I did. Steepen the seat tube and the tyre can get even closer. My stays are under 380 for sure. He didnt even use a gusset between the chainstays at the BB. If you have went for a 74HA its going to feel pretty long on the reach, even with a 1030 Wb, imo. a steeper head angle will make the reach longer yes, but the point is that you use a shorter stem to keep your hands in the same place. You then have the benefit of better front wheel moves, x-ups, tailwhips, barspins etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 a steeper head angle will make the reach longer yes, but the point is that you use a shorter stem to keep your hands in the same place. You then have the benefit of better front wheel moves, x-ups, tailwhips, barspins etc. Yeah'ano. Just sayin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Small update, front triangle built now... Getting closer now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Cool stuff - always nice when you get an update from the man himself. Out of interest, what fork are you planning on running that's 420x35mm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 They were the measurements off my current forks, which are Echos from yonks ago. Pretty sure they were the Urbans of the time? Although the Urban frame didn't come out till after I'd built the ES4 up, so I actually have no idea what they are except that they're Echos. You've made me question my measurements now though, and I'm nowhere near the forks to check! It's a good point for the future too - if the forks I've got at the mo are 420mm long and everything currently is shorter than that (as far as I know), I'm gonna have problems in the future... Some sort of bodge for spacers under the crown race it'll be I suppose.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Haha, I wasn't looking to pick holes was genuinely just wondering. Thought maybe you were getting a Marino fork as well or something. Most Echo forks since about '04 at least have been in the region of 405x45 or so from what I can remember. Not gonna be hugely out. If it does turn out that your measurement's a bit squiffy then drop him a message before he welds the rear end on and he should be able to adjust it a little, though I wouldn't have thought it'll feel too different to kill it by any means edit; Oh, and it's not like there aren't a handful of forks avaliable at 415mm or so which'd sort it out if you did need to replace your forks in the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Haha, I wasn't looking to pick holes was genuinely just wondering. Thought maybe you were getting a Marino fork as well or something. Most Echo forks since about '04 at least have been in the region of 405x45 or so from what I can remember. Not gonna be hugely out. If it does turn out that your measurement's a bit squiffy then drop him a message before he welds the rear end on and he should be able to adjust it a little, though I wouldn't have thought it'll feel too different to kill it by any means I was clearly using my TF tape measure! I'll have a check later on and see what's what. Ultimately it's going to be better than both the ES4 and the Dr Jekyll I'm running in the mean time so I don't mind too much if it's a few mil out... I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Indeed, nothing to worry about unless you want to be megapicky See also; edit in last post about there being a shit ton of slightly longer forks about that'd sort it anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Indeed, nothing to worry about unless you want to be megapicky See also; edit in last post about there being a shit ton of slightly longer forks about that'd sort it anyway Yea the only measurement I'd be a little bothered about changing is the BB height because I was contemplating making it higher than +20 anyway, so if I've actually lost some off that it'll be a shame. It'll still be higher than the 0 I had before though so I'm gonna quit worrying and just ride the thing when it gets here. I never even knew the geo of the ES4 till I snapped it anyway, so it clearly never used to bother me that much! Cheers for the thoughts either way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 If you need more front end height use the chunkiest headset you can (tall bottom half obviously), sounds petty but it makes a big difference and can make bad forks feel ok! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Here we go, Marino just sent through some 'nearly finished' pics. Saddle clearance looks good, in fact I'm totally pleased with what I can see so far Now, where did I put that credit card? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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