Protein Shakes

[Gaz96]

So over the past 2 months i've been working out, was doing fine until the festive period Now its the new year looking to start being a bit more serious and committed but I know my diet lacks in protein. So I was thinking about starting to take protein shakes as I cant just eat more meat as I stay with my family and eat the same meals as them and they wont change all the meals to suit only me. I know when you get protein it says something like recommended 2-4 servings a day... But this I could not afford,so will 1 serving a day still benefit me and help me to see better results? I'm not looking to bulk up properly just want to add a little bit more muscle mass, mainly on the upper body as this is what I work most.

[JD™]

Yea, 1 serving will be fine. Ultimately you can get all involved with the figures, or you can just realise that more protein (if you're lacking) can only be a good thing, even if it's still not an optimum amount

[Laurence--Trials]

No one serving shouldn't be okay, due to the fact your body can ONLY absorb 15mg of protean per hour. Also protean isn't massively impotent, its just like a big sponge. So when you drink water the protean absorbs it and just makes your mucels look bigger instead of atchually being much stronger. If you do want protean you should take it in small amounts but every hour or so.

Not talking shit, learnt that off a uni student

Edited January 10, 2012 by Laurence--Trials

[Rich J]

No one serving shouldn't be okay, due to the fact your body can ONLY absorb 15mg of protean per hour. Also protean isn't massively impotent, its just like a big sponge. So when you drink water the protean absorbs it and just makes your mucels look bigger instead of atchually being much stronger. If you do want protean you should take it in small amounts but every hour or so.

Not talking shit, learnt that off a uni student

I literally have no experience with protein shakes, the closest I get is Frijj, but your making it sound like if he has only 1 shake a day he is going to blow up like a balloon or die.

Could you also learn to spell from a uni student?

[Luke Rainbird]

protean isn't massively impotent

This was the highlight for me.

[Laurence--Trials]

I literally have no experience with protein shakes, the closest I get is Frijj, but your making it sound like if he has only 1 shake a day he is going to blow up like a balloon or die.

Could you also learn to spell from a uni student?

No i mean your body just wont take it in.

This was the highlight for me.

I realised i shouldn't have put that after i posted it

[MonsieurMonkey]

You learnt that from a sports science student. They are thick as f**k. Uni version of PE. Just to give you an idea of how stupid that Uni student is, 15mg = 0.015g. You can absorb about 25-30g of protein in a serving, but that's about it. Also, your brain runs on proteins. Every message, that gets sent, every electrical change. All proteins.

Protein shakes do not give you much tryphosane (sp?) though, which turns into serotonin, so depression ahoy.

Just read the, protein is like a sponge bit. Jesus, who told you that? They seriously shouldn't be alive. Protein is the building blocks of your muscles, the more protein, the bigger and stronger you are, steroids cause your muscles to retain more water. It's like he's telling you different parts of the biology involved and just hoping it sticks together.

Edited January 10, 2012 by MonsieurMonkey

[Laurence--Trials]

Yeaaah... i think its best i stay out of this topic

[Muel]

No one serving shouldn't be okay, due to the fact your body can ONLY absorb 15mg of protean per hour. Also protean isn't massively impotent, its just like a big sponge. So when you drink water the protean absorbs it and just makes your mucels look bigger instead of atchually being much stronger. If you do want protean you should take it in small amounts but every hour or so.

Not talking shit, learnt that off a uni student

If I was still a teenager, I'd take this post apart piece by piece and pull up scientific studies and stuff to disprove it.

Now I'm older and a bit more grumpy, I'm just going to say that the OP should ignore this post.

30g of protien is the optimum in one sitting IMO, but you can have upto 6 sittings in a day. Currently I'm going for 30g at breakfast, 20g at lunch, 20g mid afternoon then what I have to tea varies. Sometimes it can be 20g, sometimes 75g. Seems to be working well, in the last 3 months I've become bigger and stronger than ever before.

[dann2707]

Protein shakes do not give you much tryphosane (sp?) though, which turns into serotonin, so depression ahoy.

You are such a psychology student

[MonsieurMonkey]

That's neurochemistry bitch. Closer to biology or medicine than psychology. And I know because I f**king hate psychology. God I hate this course. 14 weeks to go.

That was a joke as well by the way, protein shakes probably wouldn't cause depression. Unless you replace all protein with them.

Edited January 10, 2012 by MonsieurMonkey

[Haz]

No one serving shouldn't be okay, due to the fact your body can ONLY absorb 15mg of protean per hour.

Not true. It varies massively between people. The truth is your body breaks protein down very slowly, faster than it can be absorbed. However spread out reasonably through the day your body will make best possible use of ALL the protein you digest.

Also protean isn't massively impotent, its just like a big sponge. So when you drink water the protean absorbs it and just makes your mucels look bigger instead of atchually being much stronger.

Three part answer.

1) Yes it is massively important. In fact if you are working out with weights, you need to make sure you are getting enough protein above any other nutrient. Some would say protein intake is more important than calorie intake.

2) No, protein is not 'just like a big sponge'. Creatine, makes cells act somewhat like a sponge, but that is a whole another kettle of fish.

3)Proteins are amino acids vital for use in the repair of your muscle tissue after a work out. Gaining size is a product of having a calorie intake above your daily maintenance the number of calories required to exist, before exercise, average 2000 for a female, 2500 for a male. Losing weight is possible through having a calorie intake less than your maintenance. Strength however is a product of training your Central Nervous System (CNS) into recruiting more muscle. Strength is freaquently related to size, yes, because a bigger person has more muscle available to recruit. Body Builders, Power Lifters and Strong Men will all have a massively increased protein intake to facilitate their training, be it size or strength gains.

If you do want protean you should take it in small amounts but every hour or so.

Wrong, you should make sure you are taking as much as you need whenever you can get it. You can do it all at once if that's what floats your boat, but that would be awful. You are much better having 2/3 smaller doses throughout the day, to complement your meals and fasting periods such as sleep.

Not talking shit, learnt that off a uni student

Yes you are, he obviously knows jack.

Most people would recommend 1g of protein per 1lb of lean body mass as a starting point. So if you weigh 70kg/155lbs, with a body fat percentage of 15%, your lean mass would be 59kg/123lbs. This means you ought to be making sure you are getting 123grams of protein every day, training or non training.

A decent shake can be anywhere between 25g to 50g of protein, so find out what your normal protein intake is in your diet and adjust the number/size of your shakes to hit your quota.

Short of that, buy a bag of unbranded whey protein and get it down you, you'll do just fine.

[Muel]

By that maths I would be getting about 160g of protein a day, but I'm not getting that much at the moment. Thing is though I'm not weight training, I'm doing climbing training which is more about power/weight than pure mass. I was thinking about 100-125g a day would be about right?

[Azarathal]

Haz beat me to it, it's creatine that retains water and gives you a bit more size and weight (due to water retention). I can't remember specifics but I know that supplimenting creatine helps with protein synthesis due to increased nitrogen stores within the muscles, as I said though I can't remember 100% so don't quote me on it.

Protien is very important though, I weigh 78kg at 5'10" and about 11% bodyfat and consume maybe 200g a day whether I've done my daily gym routine, had a day doing nothing, been riding trials or attending gymnastics. It helps to keep you feeling full and helps with the recovery of muscles.

bulkpowders is a great site to order from and it's usually at least half the price of highstreet shops (GNC charge around £35-50 for a 2kg tub depending on brand wheras Bulkpowers were about £15-20 last time I checked)

[Flip-Mod]

I fancy sticking my oar in.

Here the back of my baseball card: In 2 years (on/off supplements) i lost 2 stone, 10% body fat and then put on 4 kilos of muscle and lost an extra 2% body fat.

Bottom line: Unless you want to look like a knuckle dragging nickleback fan who once to expand with water-weight, looking for a stupidly over exaggerated 1 Rep Max you DONT need it.

If your desperate, get a decent, well established Whey and have 17.5g (with water) as a post-workout (cardio, muscular endurance) or 35g when lifting heavy weights (reps of 6 maximum).

Protein shakes are a gimmick that will exploit your finances and abolish any sense of personal responsibility for your fitness and/or strength ("the protein will build my muscles... NO. Going balls out on Deadlifts, Squats, Powercleans and Pull-Ups will build muscle, the protein will help a TINY bit if you DO those exercises).

The ACTUAL secret to muscle building? Eat 6 small portions a day of fish,chicken, turkey, pork, sweet potato, red meat, broccoli, spinach, nuts, seeds, fruit, fruit and fruit (and drink water)etc and FORGET alcohol.

See results in 10 weeks with 3-4 workout sessions a week. If you dont, your kidding/cheating yourself.

Good Luck!

Tom

[Haz]

By that maths I would be getting about 160g of protein a day, but I'm not getting that much at the moment. Thing is though I'm not weight training, I'm doing climbing training which is more about power/weight than pure mass. I was thinking about 100-125g a day would be about right?

It's only a way to estimate, but it's worked for countless people far more educated and far far better trained than I.

Haz beat me to it, it's creatine that retains water and gives you a bit more size and weight (due to water retention). I can't remember specifics but I know that supplimenting creatine helps with protein synthesis due to increased nitrogen stores within the muscles, as I said though I can't remember 100% so don't quote me on it.

I don't know the science either, but that sounds right.

bulkpowders is a great site to order from and it's usually at least half the price of highstreet shops (GNC charge around £35-50 for a 2kg tub depending on brand wheras Bulkpowers were about £15-20 last time I checked)

Never used them myself, but online is definitely the way to go. www.myprotein.co.uk are relatively well regarded for their products and competitive prices.

As for Flip-Mod, I disagree with some of your comments.

Bottom line: Unless you want to look like a knuckle dragging nickleback fan who once to expand with water-weight, looking for a stupidly over exaggerated 1 Rep Max

Both Olympic lifters and power lifters train solely for 1 rep maxes. They are a legitmate goal and a very good bench mark of maximum strength.

you DONT need it.

You need to make sure your body has everything it needs to rebuild the damage done whilst performing your exercise. Be it strength, size or endurance.

If your desperate, get a decent, well established Whey and

The only advantage a brand might have is a better texture or taste. There are a number of companies who provide un-branded whey protein shake mixes which work every bit as well as the 'leading brands'.

have 17.5g (with water) as a post-workout (cardio, muscular endurance) or 35g when lifting heavy weights

As long as you are giving your body what it needs, you can have it whenever. Before, after, with meals, it does not matter. The only thing you should account for are fasting periods, such as sleep of long shifts at work, and you should try and have a reasonable supplement* before them.

(reps of 6 maximum).

Entirely dependent on your goals. For strength, yes, 6 is the upper limit. For size, 8-12 is fair. Any more and you should just up the weight, because you might as well not be trying. 6 max on heavy weight is a silly thing to say without any context.

Need someone to reply so I can post the rest of the quotes without breaking the forum

Edited January 10, 2012 by Haz

[Flip-Mod]

Thanks for your comments Haz, but my efforts within the context of the original query.

1. I assumed he didnt want to be a bodybuilder/weightlifter as Gaz96 quoted: "I'm not looking to bulk up properly just want to add a little bit more muscle mass".

(i appreciated that body builders/weightlifters can be ripped, but i would suggest its an alternative fitness choice, not for your average trials rider)

2. I didnt say 'Brand' i said "well-established" (as in tried, tested, reviewed).

3. Im pretty sure there is a 20-60 minute window for protein consumption after strength training so post-workout protein is pretty handy.

4. My 8-12 Rep reference was meant to be inferred within the 'muscular endurance' portion of my recommend workout strategy. I should have said 6 reps max for strength.

Cheers

Tom

[Muel]

There's a 20-60 minute window for when your muscles are screaming out for nutrients, but protein takes a lot longer than that to get into the blood as I understand it.

[Haz]

Fair enough, FM. Here is the rest of what I wanted to post...

Protein shakes are a gimmick that will exploit your finances and abolish any sense of personal responsibility for your fitness and/or strength

While it is true, protein shakes are not as cost effective as even basic chicken, they are a valid, well tested and well proven supplement*. Tesco Value Chicken at £3.50 for 2kg(total mass) at ~28g/100g protein or 160g/£ is less expensive than Blended Protein at £48.99 for ~5kg at ~78g/100g protein or 80g/£, but the convenience of shakes far outweighs this cost.

("the protein will build my muscles... NO. Going balls out on Deadlifts, Squats, Powercleans and Pull-Ups will build muscle, the protein will help a TINY bit if you DO those exercises).

I agree there is no way to gain strength or size past lifting heavy. I disagree massively about how much protein will aid someone training to lift heavily. When you perform any exercise, your body damages itself, it is the repair and recovery, which allow you to get bigger and stronger, no protein, no repair, simple.

The ACTUAL secret to muscle building? Eat 6 small portions a day of fish,chicken, turkey, pork, sweet potato, red meat, broccoli, spinach, nuts, seeds, fruit, fruit and fruit (and drink water)etc

The ACTUAL secret to muscle building is sleep. Lifting priorities for an active lifter (of any calibre) go SLEEP > DIET > TRAIN. If your sleep is bad, your diet won't matter and if your diet is bad, your training won't matter. Those are all great sources of nutrition, don't get me wrong. But you can eat what you like, IF IT FITS YOUR MACROS. If your regular diet doesn't provide enough protein, a shake as a supplement* is a damn good way to bring it back to your macro. It's the same with any supplement, be it creatine or caffeine, etc.

and FORGET alcohol.

NEVER!

*The important thing to remember, is that protein shakes are a SUPPLEMENT, and are by no means a SUBSTITUTE, for a balanced and healthy diet.

[JD™]

I remember now why I don't bother replying to these posts much. TESTOSTERONE AND A SMALL AMOUNT OF (or none of) KNOWLEDGE, AHOY!

[Flip-Mod]

Thanks Haz, i should have mentioned and agree with your opinion on sleep: 8-9 hours a night works well for me.

Tom

[Davetrials]

So what's everybodys tipple then? I recently finished of my promax diet, which made me shit horribly, and gave me violent mood swings, gonna sack of the diet and stick to normal pro max.

[konstant]

due to the fact your body can ONLY absorb 15mg of protean per hour. Also protean isn't massively impotent, its just like a big sponge.

I just spat tea on my desk. Never heard so much tripe in one two sentences.

Be careful about overdoing protein. Its metabolism produces ketones which have to be flushed out by the kidneys. If you're consuming way more protein than your muscles need for repair/growth, you'll eventually screw up your kidneys.

Want to up your protein intake on the cheap? Eat tinned tuna. It goes great with pasta dishes. No saturated fat at all. But not every day because it contains mercury... Compliment that with a shake after training. Obviously eggs are good too, but yokes have a fair bit of LDL cholesterol in them.

Back to studying for my ...proteins... exam next week. FML.

[Muel]

Obviously eggs are good too, but yokes have a fair bit of LDL cholesterol in them.

Which has recently been proven to be almost no issue at all.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7882850.stm

There is some cholesterol in eggs, but not as much as there once was because the chickens are usually fed on a special feed now, rather than bone meal.

I have 3 on toast for breakfast every day, nice and healthy.

Also, I've read that 1 tin of tuna per day is fine, but more than that can lead to health problems. So I eat one a day in my butties at lunch.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Muel

[ogre]

So what's everybodys tipple then? I recently finished of my promax diet, which made me shit horribly, and gave me violent mood swings, gonna sack of the diet and stick to normal pro max.

if you wanna try low callorie shakes, the my protein low calorie stuff was very good in my experience, the taste was a bit wierd to me at first but i've still got some left and i enjoy it more than some ohers i have, it's got oats in so it's a bit grainy. i've got the normal my protein generic protein, that i alright but very good value for money, best stuff in my eyes is iso2 stuff, shit tastes amazing...