LEON

50"? I'm pretty sure that would make you the world record holder... I agree with shorter stays the better, 385 is just my preference, plenty short for me but plenty of people will wanna go shorter, I grew up riding bikes with almost 400mm stays, I also had seat, brake clearance issues. Maybe a 0 rise bb would be ok for me but anything towards +20 I just don't agree with. I don't agree that a high bb cancels out a steep head angle for bunnyhops either, some bikes have such a short front end that a high bb would just cramp the riding position so the bike needs about 3 feet of spacers, a 25 deg stem and 3" inch risers, which to me feels horrible and looks crap too.

Yea have a re calculation and see what your reach is with the new wb & headangle. The bb height is preference really, a lower one will favour bunnyhops/manuals/balance as your centre of gravity is lower, in exchange for a bit more ground clearance/bit better on back wheel, personally I'd take the first lot eveytime, but if you want a mix of both, you'll basically have a zebdi + about 15mm bb height, which i suppose is a bit like the old Ashton Justice.

Well, what do you think of zebdi's? Mk 3/4. Mine measures 1025 wb, 390 stays. The zebdi was a great all round ride, but wasn't a bunny hop monster, it was good with the correct fork/bar/stem, but was no zero/norco. I basically went 5mm shorter on stays and 10mm shorter overall, but I have a slack 70deg head angle so my reach is very short (20mm less than a zebdi) That's like tilting your head tube back nearly an inch while keeping the wheelbase the same. Also your +10bb won't help with bunnyhops, and you'll need a slightly higher bar/stem than usual to counter it, but like I said, that 74 deg head angle is the killer, ever ridden a curtis T1?? Don't. Zebdi top tube = 573mm My top tube = 545mm In comparison the 600mm top tube in your drawing is huge, that's an extra inch reach over a zebdi, plus a steeper head angle to make pulling up even harder.

If it's pure street stuff you're after I think 1035 is too long with 385 stays, remember the old school bikes gone by, alot of those had 395-400mm stays, and taking so much off your rear end will just add it to the top tube length as you're keeping the same wheelbase, effectively pulling up like a bike with a 1045-1050 wb in regards to reach and slightly longer stays, see what I mean? I've been there, mine's 385 stays with 1015 wb and I would happily take 10mm off the front triangle if I could. Also 74 deg is pretty effing steep, about as steep as it gets without being a micro scooter! Bunyhop suicide, I'm warning you it will not bunnyhop! lol, what exactly do you want it to do? I made the mistake with my first few marino's. When considering wheelbase/reach you have to take into account bikes have lost 10-15mm off the rear end in the last 10 years, this doesn't affect your reach, but the 10-15mm you'll be adding to the top tube will make all the difference. Long stays make a bike far worse on the back wheel than a short wheelbase, so don't think it's gonna backhop like crap just because it's short, mine feels fine with the 385 stays and it's only 1015 wb, personally I wouldn't go any shorter as it can feel unstable with high speed bunnyhops to manuals etc, quite twitchy.

I didn't pay anything because I'm special (sponsored) and I've bought enough in the past to make up for it lol. Prices should all be on his site. I get mine done locally at sign factory in Southend, just find a sign maker place near you.

18 months use and all you had was cracks? I'd say that's pretty bloody good! Looking good Ross, but I have to say, lower bb is the way

Do it! For a start, it's only budget because of the price, and I'd say affordable is a better word, the quality/finish of his latest 4130 cro mo frames is better than alot of production stuff I've seen, and way above the older mild steel frames, it's not like he's holding the frame in 1 hand and the welder in the other, he has proper jigs etc and got every single measurement of mine spot on, and don't go thinking 4130 cro mo frames are all heavy, these aren't dmr's, mine weighs 4.9 lbs which is excellent considering it is steel and also top quality stuff, and the best thing is that this weight is just a safe weight he gave me to test, and if all holds up well to abuse then he is gonna make me an even lighter one, and use that as a guideline of how light is too light for the public as he's only just started using the 4130. I did ask about forks but he said currently he doesn't have the tubes to make them, but he does make forks, I was sent a pair months ago, they were the older mild steel & were no heavier than a pair of pashleys. I think stickers just come in the 1 font but I get my own done anyway. Just make sure you do your homework & know exactly what you want, to the nearest mm possible, misjudging your fork rake/length by 5mm can have drastic effects on the frame.

I've got crux, there is some big stuff yea but back in the day he just had no fear, everything was huge, whereas Jeff has kept it big well into his late 30's. He was ripping the streets yea, I just wish he still was as I loved his older vids, just 1 adrenaline fuelled 3 minute street vid is all it'd take, revolution/evolve/contact style.

I just wish he'd go make a good old street vid with a canadian punk rock band soundtrack & show just how good he is. I think making a living doing fairly tame demos (by his standards) has definitely slowed him down, he needs to just go and smash up the streets! I can't remember the last time I saw him go big & I'm his biggest fan, seems roughly about the time he changed his bike & made it more "modern" (longer) I like what Jeff Lenosky has done, stayed riding in big vids like new world disorder & kept pushing himself & became a much more well rounded bike rider, bar spins, back flips (on the street) huge ramp assisted wall rides. Doing it all essentially on a giant dirt jump bike with twin discs & a bashguard.

Noo this one's spot on, I just thought I knew everything about geometry with the last ones & I didn't.

I know, me & ross got hats too lol, he always sends a souvenir from peru.

At least your hat matches the bike lol. That must be light, it's about half the size of mine!

Cheers everyone! Joe i've had 3 or 4 rides this week when the weather's allowed me, I'm ready now so I'll ride whenever! (I don't do wet) Bender b, cheers! I know what you mean, but in a way maybe it's a good thing we have to go custom now, as we can now get everything we want, as much as I loved my old frames, each one had at least 1 thing that I'd have changed, Zebdi needed a slacker head angle. Zero needed a decent rear end with proper tyre clearance. Norco needed about an inch off the chainstays. Curtis needed about 4 degrees less head angle & shorter stays. Ben, cheers, -10 seems perfect for what I do on a bike, 2 frames ago I had 0mm rise, and that petty 10mm increase felt like I was being forced to lean over the front of the bike, opposite of what I'm after and really couldn't get the bars high enough to counter it, manuals felt unstable, it even vaguely reminded me of a GU typhoon, bad for me lol. If the bb is too high, there's absolutely nothing you can do, at least if it's too low you can lower your bars, get longer forks, chunkier headset/tyres, there are a few options to give small increases/decreases, but chainstay length & bb height are terminal Ali the stem's only 90mm lol, pretty much what I've always used. A steeper head angle would just give me a longer top tube & work against me, the bike's made to pull up effortlessly, the shorter stems I've tried put my hands too far back, this combo gives the best foot-handdistance and is virtually the same front end I've used on my norco, zebdi's etc. I hate steep head angles, I had a curtis T1 for a day and was shocked someone would build such a short bike (good for bunnyhops) with such a steep head angle (crap for bunnyhops) I've always preferred slacker, though mine's not as slack as a Zero.

At last Marino now uses lightweight but super strong 4130 cro mo tubes, the first thing I noticed was the weight, the old mild steel ones weighed 5.5 - 5.6 lbs, this one is 4.9! I'm no weight weenie but it really does help, feels no heavier than my zebdi, and for anyone who still thinks 4.9 is heavy, a koxx levelboss weighs 5lbs, and the Pashley 26GHZ weighs 5.5! So a huge improvement there. And this is still for a fraction of the cost of any other custom frame builder I've ever heard of, finish quality & paint even seem to have improved since the first frames, seriously impressed. It basically feels like an expensive production frame, but made to my extremely picky specifications! Marino got every detail spot on, wheelbase, chainstays, even BB height, which can vary with fork length, tyre profile, even bottom headset cup height. Riding it reminds me of the old bikes of the past that you can't buy anymore, feels like I'm on my old norco, without the 400mm chainstays lol. Geo is.... 1015 wb with pashley fork -10mm bb 70 deg head angle 385mm stays 120mm headtube v bosses at 85mm Max tyre clearance The pics do the paint no justice, I don't know why I'd never seen this colour, I copied Ross's from one of his old Marino's. Got it set up perfect as in the pic, so now to ride it hard & start filming, it's been too long.

By the way, as said above, sram & shimano pull different amounts of cable, 1.1 or 1.2 ratio, sram do shimano compatible shifters (I've got 1 & it's crap) but I'd just use a cheap shimano thumb shifter & an old short cage xt or xtr mech, can't go wrong. Basically if your cassette & chain are 8sp, your shifter has to be 8sp, you can use a 7sp shifter too as it's the same spacing you'll just a lose 1 click/gear. But a 9sp shifter will piss it all up, avoid such a skinny chain on a trials bike, 8 is my limit. I use an old 8sp sachs wavey gripshift (shimano compatible) with an xtr short cage mech & it's perfect.

I almost pissed myself when I read this lol.

Interesting fact...I got lost in Wimborne trying to find Monkey World.

Joe I'll be there! flying on sep 11th eh?.....nice lol. We won't be riding much if the weather carries on like this. I did overbleed on an echo urban/D521 once, not keen on the idea, but I'll see how much these clamps do first & buy the chunkiest pads I can find, anyone know what that would be? Don't care about compound just want minimum noise. Why can't mavic just make a slightly bigger D521??????

I actually think it looks a bit crap, definitely a step down from the legendary grey xtr of the late 90's.

Yea it was just black & 1998 ford fiesta maroon they came in lol, I was thinking frame & fork gunmetal grey... Was never actually my leg lol, my right side/hip and a bit on my upper back were both a nightmare all infected but healed up about 10 weeks ago, but as soon as I healed I was a fat b*****d and a slug on a bike after nearly 2 years off & it wasn't fair on my cranks, bars, frame etc so I stopped eating crap, went running alot & went from 16 st to 13st 12lbs I feel like I'm 19 again, ready for street! Although...I've just had a very generous offer from Mr Marino

Always used gears always will I use all of 'em too for the fast stuff, had 8 gears & gripshift for over 13 years now lol. The weight ain't too bad, I just notice it in the rear but I need the gears, But I don't need a Josh Bender sized rim, I'd bet a D521 is stronger anyway. Just wish i could bend the headtube back a bit....lol, and I gotta get it re sprayed.

I've heard the tensile mounts are useless for narrower rims, only good for wider as they stick up bit where the hoses screw in hits the edge of the mount anyway so you can't get it any further inwards, I may be wrong but I did look & that's what I read. Might just go for some beefier pads.

It's off Edmondraptor on here, The bars are the old model Azonic b-52 (before the azonic shape went awful) supposed to be 2" rise but they're more like 2.5" as the 31.8 clamp makes the rise look lower, replacing them with some Answer pro tapers tonight, same sorta thing but they were too cheap to turn down. Yea bar angle can make or break a bike for me lol, 2 0r 3 degrees either way & it's ruined lol. It's definitely no orange zero in terms of bunnyhops but it's the closest thing I've ridden behind a zebdi & a norco, but in return it's way better than those on the back wheel. You do feel the weight, it's probably a tiny bit less than a marino but I wanna go back to a rear D521 & get rid of this echo urban thing, but I'm not sure the pads will reach unless I get brand new ones, even then it'd be a stretch! I hate 4 bolt mounts & most modern things lol. And the marino's...I just gave up, little tweaks here & there but just couldn't get what I wanted, the last one's wheelbase came up quite a bit over, frame was a month late, and I don't think a cheap custom frame can ever compare to a production one, shame, I could have bought 4 of these with the money I spent on marino's lol.

Cheers! Once again it took years of fine bar & stem adjustment, but I like it. I read somewhere the stays are 384mm, looking at it, I'd say realistically they couldn't be any shorter, so even though it's tiny short it's still decent on the back wheel. Wheelbase with pashley forks is about 1014. The bb looks rougly a 4/5mm drop from the axles. Head angle is probably 72/73 ish, steeper than I'd like but the short rear & bb drop make up for it. I wanna try find some slightly longer forks, 405-410mm, basicaly lite guys but with strength. I'll try get some decent pics tonight if the sun comes back. Chars!