Matthew62

Ha, they're fairly serious. Might have to make a couple tonight. Not so many places to pick up Lillet though which makes it tricky. I just think they're symbolic of the sort of drinking culture we have now where people buy sugary, colourful drinks with cocktails served in pitchers....it's just so tacky and cheap. There has been such a good drinking culture in the past from the simple ale-house setup to hotel lounge cocktail bars....that was the norm. Now you have to endure some hybrid dub-step shite 'n' B music and queue for 86 minutes to get a shite drink that is 70% water and leaves your teeth feeling as though they've been formed of fur. It's just so low-rent, but at the same time not really significantly cheaper than just going somewhere decent and having nicely made drinks. I don't want juice in my drink, and I don't want it to taste like skittles or some other sweet. Make it good. Make it strong, and let's have a little class about it.

If you're 14. Irregardless of the fact that one is a depressant and the other a stimulant the taste is horrific. Of all the things that go well (and compliment vodka) I have no idea why you'd pick red bull..... it actually causes me to loose brain cells it's that stupid. I really hate the culture of "drinking to get f**ked" vs having a drink that actually tastes good and is made from decent ingredients. Have a few vespa martinis and see how well you stand up, whilst at the same time having had a few good tasting, well made drinks.

That's exactly what I thought when I tried one on (as do a lot of people I know who have them). I always found Giro helmets whilst very nice (and with the exception of the old Semi-MX) that they very much sat on top of your head whereas the TrailRS sits over it and seems to cover a lot more without look bulbous. The extra coverage at the back is really nice as well. I think it'll eventually be popular with hoppy-hoppy trials riders for that reason. I think a good helmet should be as discreet as possible so you don't notice a single element of it (annoying you) and I think the TrailRS is the best helmet I've ever had for that reason.

Ha, that's pretty good going. That was my aim in November but never stuck to it, but i'm rarely clean shaven and it's always been an issue with helmets, but not any more. The blue colour helmet is great looking in the flesh but I think stock might be running low on what's available though. Loads more coming in March though if the one you want isn't available.

Yep. I've got one. It's a beaut. Most comfortable helmet I've ever had. It's set to be the helmet for 2014 Also I should add I changed from a 5 year old Giro Xen. They're nice and light, well ventilated and the adjustment is really simple with the wheel. Also if you've got any facial hair the protected strap bit makes it a lot more comfortable than most helmets and you won't go trapping your beard in there.

Have you still got your Stiffy's?

Yeah they're pretty much made to order these days and they're certainly not the quickest with turnaround time. Pro 2's will be a worthwhile upgrade and the latest Shimano brakes are great. At least it'll be here for the better weather.

The video says the sailor was in there for over an hour.... I've experienced total silence only once and it is very, very odd. Your bodies noises to build up and become loud and can be disorientating.

Ha, you've got to go with your heart now and again, if it's what you enjoy most then why wouldn't you get it? I hope you have an awesome time riding it. What colour are you going for? You can see pics of my old Five in the 'non-trials bike' thread. Likewise, if you ever want a ride up in Scotchland give me a shout! P.S. Put some pics up when you've got the bike.

Well blow me - crazy fools. What you talking about? I can't very well do skids without a good back brake can I?

I don't think Duncan runs 203's, nor does Ali as far as I remember. 203 Saints are most certainly overkill and as has been mentioned will void your warranty. You simply don't need that level of stopping power with the type of forces you're likely to put through the bike. The only reason Danny runs a 203 on the back is due to the huge backwards forces he puts through the bike with abubaca's and 180 drop gaps etc from huge heights. Your average rider simply doesn't need that, it'll just be a bigger, heavier rotor that's more likely to bend.

Maybe they have? It was just an assumption by Andy. You could always ask them for yourself so you know the score. I know when I had to deal with them recently I was told they hadn't had a single warranty case with the Skye so I wouldn't be too worried there. You seem to be getting annoyed by the subject but aren't basing it on anything yet so a quick call or email to Inspired would give you all the info you need, then worry no more.

I understand completely. When I decided to build a MTB after having not spent much time MTBing a couple of summers ago my heart was set on an Orange for the exact same reasons. I had a little test of a Five and saved up for a black & gold frame and built a blacked out beauty. I'd built exactly what I'd wanted for so long. Over the 18 months of owning it I thought it was alrite but I never enjoyed MTBing that much. Always felt tired, wasn't very fast going down etc etc, but it was a proper, good looking bike that was immensely improved over the Kona Coiler i'd be using on the very odd occasion beforehand. I moved to Scotland and started riding with lots of different people and over a couple of years have tried quite a lot of different bikes. As I mentioned earlier it was on the day riding with the guys from Nukeproof that I got a different perspective. I'd put up with everyone telling me I was riding either a door hinge or a filing cabinet and defended my bike no matter what. Over the course of 2 years I've gotten to understand where peoples comments are rooted and to an extent agree with. Quite simply Orange bikes wouldn't exist now if it weren't for the development of advanced shocks with great pedalling platforms. They've kept the single pivot design just about viable in a world with advance and efficient bikes (at the same cost, if not less). I've seen plenty of people giving them a pasting and ride them very well. They reward those who lay off the brakes and give it the beans, but then so do a lot of bikes without the penalties. I used to think Orange bikes were good looking but they just look so old now and cumbersome. I mean just shy of 3K for a 26" bike with a Deore/SLX mix with no dropper isn't very good. I built a custom bike so frame wise the price is comparable to most frames out there now, but I wouldn't justify the cost now. I mean look what you can get at your budget: http://dirt.mpora.com/dirt100-2014/dirt-100-2014-cube-stereo-140-hpc-race-29.html amazing kit on that for the money. This is very sweet as well: http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/stumpjumper-fsr-comp-evo-29-2014-mountain-bike-ec053580?country=GB&currency=GBP&utm_content=mkwid__pcrid_19178765816_kword__match__plid_&gclid=CKWZkKuHkrwCFYaE2wodBBIAqA (I'm aware both of those are 29ers but just for reference sake). I know I spoke out against Canyon, but that was mainly aimed at the Strive bike, this new Spectral is incredible for the money as well: http://dirt.mpora.com/dirt100-2014/dirt-100-2014-canyon-spectral-al-9-0-ex.html This is bloody nice as well: http://dirt.mpora.com/dirt100-2014/dirt-100-2014-trek-slash-7.html I don't want to influence your choice but just want to give my experiences. I bought an Orange for the same reason but I truly would never buy another one now. Having experienced the sort of bikes being made now, with the stuff that's coming on them, the Oranges just aren't competing. The only advantage you'll have is that you won't find a more active bike than an Orange (naturally) but other than that I'm left scratching my head. I mean I've heard the newest Alpines are nice riding bikes being that touch lighter than previous, but 2014 is proving a tough year for bike buying choice as it's at a stage of change.

The Alpines do look a bit better in the flesh but they're still fairly monstrous. I guess there's things such as spec and weight. The Zesty is 29lbs out of the box which is very respectable, the Alpine will be a good bit more. My Five was 32.5lbs with a pimp spec on which was a bit silly. You get a dropper post on the Lapierre (a stealth one at that which if you did later buy a dropper for the Alpine you'd have to run externally) which is a big bonus and a higher groupset overall. You get infinitely better brakes on the Lapierre (for reference I love Shimano brakes but wouldn't run Deore's on a MTB), and a better level of crank, bars and stem. Pound for pound you get much better stuff on the Lapierre which would influence my decision. Just as a reference point. If you do go ahead and buy the Alpine i'd look at changing the fork. I've ridden a number of Fox 34's and they're woeful. The small bump sensitivity is atrocious and if you run them at a low enough pressure to get them to respond they dive through their full travel when you pull the front brake. CTD just doesn't work. You'll find (everyone I know who has ridden or owns a 34 has done the same) you'll always leave the fork in Trail mode so that it sits up enough through the trail (as you ride along), but it is so harsh and unforgiving when you're going quickly that they pack up easily and just feel unresponsive. The 32 is much better and the extra element of flex actually helps. I know Orange only appear to offer the upgrade to a Kashima 34 but i'd speak to them and see if they could put a Pike on instead. I rode last years Spicy 916 and whilst it was a great bike it had the top end 34 on and it just ruined the bike. My friends run the Evolution versions and all got rid of them for Pikes. I've ridden 32's and 36's, both of which perform perfectly well, but there's a space reserved in hell for the Fox 34.

Ah awesome, thanks for the update. I might be in need of one of those later in the year. I take it until this point no one with an Evo hub has had any issues and needed a new axle...pretty good going if so.

Ah yeah, there's plenty more 26" stuff out there at the moment. My point is that from this year onwards hardly any bike companies are making 26" bikes. There's still plenty of old stock left but companies are beginning to make less and less 26" stuff. Some companies have completely gotten rid of it all together. It will take a while for things like tyre stock to catch up but distributors are now ordering 26" tyres in small quantities as they don't want dead stock. There will be lots of people who still have 26" bikes and they'll need parts but it's not the area of focus. A few of my friends are selling various 26" bikes at the moment and are struggling. I'm apprehensive when I come to sell mine at the end of summer. Two of my other friends however were selling 650b wheels (not an ideal comparison admittedly) and they sold them within a week. I would just have a good think...I built my bike early last summer and 650b wasn't such a big thing, now with the change to the 2014 season (Oct/Nov) everything is 650B, so you're placed at a better time to make a more informed decision. If you're not too worried about resale then I suppose it's not as relevant. As I previously mentioned there is nothing wrong with 26", it's just increasingly being seen as old hat.

Haha, I do appreciate peoples concerns but then I've heard that for every cracked Lapierre you get a new one, and with a long warranty it doesn't sound so bad. Also there are a lot of dubious cases out there. One issue they've had in the past is that they've used filler on their alloy bikes where the welds are to create a smoother area. Quite often the filler can crack which shows up in the paintwork whereas nothing is functionally wrong with the bike. However Lapierre will still replace the frame.... Now people complain about this sort of thing but when I found a crack in my Skye (which turned out to basically be the same thing) Inspired weren't at first overly keen to do much about it and ordered it to be stripped to investigate the crack before they'd even tell me what they'd do next (potentially nothing). Also Orange frames regularly crack in exactly the same way in the area where the shock mount is mounted to the downtube, as there's a section that's only painted and not welded. As this twists it again creates cracks in much the same way, but no bad reputation... so it's all down to perception. Well you could hold on to your Five another 4 years and then sell it as they hold their value as we've been told, so I wouldn't worry So you finally agree they do suffer from it? But you have ridden one and never noticed it previously? Maybe not ideal to give advice on full sussers with all due respect. I also don't get the comparison with Konas...comparing a 4-bar linkage driven bike to a single pivot? They're entirely different. Whilst it's perfectly acceptable to like both I'm struggling to see what your opinions are based on and I'm not sure they're helpful to Tom as they're all a bit whimsical. If you could elaborate a bit more on why you liked certain bikes I reckon it would help with the topic.

You keep banging on about the Lapierre's but you're constantly referring to the old bikes. From what I recall your shop stopped stocking lapierre so you won't have encountered a 2014 bike will you? Again, it is entirely different to the old bikes/frames. You're obviously very pro orange but basing your buying on just easily replaceable bearings seems a bit wild. You haven't addressed the brake jack issue I mentioned that you then said didn't exist... As I've mentione I've ridden a Five for a good while on a whole variety of trails and whilst I liked it at the time I genuinely wouldn't go back to one. Have you actually ridden an orange? I did love them at one point but they're just too long in the tooth now and quite expensive for what they are. They haven't really innovated for 15 years and whilst that's some of the appeal, the rest of the MTB world has moved on and they don't seem to want to compete. I'm not bad mouthing them as they've personally been very good to me and are a nice company but I think they're now just a bit out of the loop. Tom, 26" does unfortunately seem to be being phased out. It's not necessarily a good thing, but it is what's happening. More and more companies are focusing tier efforts on 650b.

I'm not sure VPP is the be all and end all. It's a hell of a lot of bearings to replace, especially as Santa Cruz aren't renowned for the longest lasting ones. Also Santa Cruz bikes are just silly money these days. As has been mentioned the 2014 zesty and spicys are entirely different frames and there's no reports of breakages yet. My main thing I'd be considering is the rise of 650b becoming the standard wheel size. I don't think I'd be buying a 26" right now as they're poring less and less popular and might be harder to sell on at a later date.

Yeah the 2014 Zesty and Spicy will be very similar as they are essentially the same frame now, all 3 being alloy models that you've tried. I think they are forgiving but at the same time they reward effort. They're a focused bike that'll be great as you progress or ride more. Every full susser will feel less active than an Orange due to their basic design but it's whether you want that level of activeness ongoing is the question.... As you said it will feel sluggish without a good Pro Pedal or lockout setting, but even then you're still relying entirely on the shock to counter bob. I had a 17" Five which had the same top tube length as an 18" and I'm just under 5' 9". It felt a bit long with a 36 fork up front. I now run a 17" bike that's ever so slightly shorter with a 60mm stem and 150mm fork and it feels great. There's no reason you shouldn't have a bike to do DH runs on as well. I use mine for Innerleithen DH routes whilst also having it for all day rides. I would strongly recommend you try one of these: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-mega-am-275-pro-bike-2014/rp-prod107267 That's the 2014 model and you'd be hard pressed to find a better specced bike for the money. It comes with the new top-end Rockshox Pike which I have on my bike and it is phenomenal. The Moarch+ rear shock is something else as well. For bang on your budget there's the Comp spec: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-mega-am-275-comp-bike-2014/rp-prod107266 but you loose the £280 dropper and get the fork and rear shock with less adjustability. An incredible bike for the money though. They will ride a lot more like the Alpine, they are absolute monsters when pointed downhill. I rode with the guys from Nukeproof on the 2013 test bike day and I leant one of them my Five (the bike they were trying to beat with the Mega) and I jumped on a Mega AM....I felt it a lot easier on the ups and night and day on the way downs - like a mini DH bike. Just some further options for you...

Yeah because the brake calliper is on the seat stay which is driving in to the shock the brake and shock are fighting against each other. That's why rocker links are added to single pivots so that the shock curve can be controlled and can go some way to counter this. (i.e. bikes like the blood, and Nukeproof Mega). If you watch the video of Joe Barnes riding Ben A'an watch the slow mo as he's coming down the rocks, you can see the rear shock on his Alpine isn't working at all and his rear wheel is just banging off every rock which'll make for a horrible ride.

This video sort of explains it: If you're braking on a bike that's so active, as you're locking out the rear wheel it's impacting on the shock and forcing it to compress so in affect it's locking out, or at least, not working as it should. If I went through stutter bumps or if I was riding downhill in to a berm that had big braking bumps and I was dragging my back brake, my Five would just lock up and bounce over all the bumps loosing traction. That's why so many elaborate suspension linkages exist to combat this and pedal bob as you climb. A four bar linkage or Horst linkage goes a decent way to allow the rear shock to work whilst not being affected the rear brake.

Bare in mind that the Zesty has just been updated for 2014 with a brand new frame and it is better than ever. It looks absolutely gorgeous now and rides a treat. I've ridden with a couple of guys who have the 527 and 927 and they were both in love. They're a bit longer now and much stronger - no issues so far. No, the Spicy has always been available as a longer travel Zesty basically. Now they're both 150mm travel with 650B wheels, just the Spicy's have a burlier build kit. There is also a 29er version of Zesty if you're that way inclined. I had a Five for a while and loved it for a bit, they're very active but they're not the most sophisticated. You need a good shock on the back to counter pedal-bob so they can be a bit of work up hill. Also due to the single pivot set-up if you're going down a rocky section and you're using the back brake then you're basically locking out the shock so you might as well be on a hard tail. I found the back end of my Five very flexy even with a maxle so you could get a bit of rear wheel steering around corners. I'm not sure what your budget is now based on some of the bikes you've mentioned but have a look at the Nukeproof Mega range. There's a Mega AM which is there 160mm bike, and the Mega TR which is 130mm travel. The 2013 is available with 26" wheels and the 2014 with 27.5" so loads to pick from. They're all good value bikes with some top end kit on and there's some good sales on at CRC at the mo so could be time for a bargain. I haven't heard many good things about Canyon bikes. They have good kit on them but they're Chinese off the peg bikes and the frames aren't the best riding. I'd rather pick a proven, good-handling bike and upgrade if necessary then buy a bike for its components. YT are meant to be ok but they take months to arrive even if you can get hold of one. The big downside to dealer direct brands like this is if you have an issue then you'll be waiting a long time for them to do anything about it.

I really hope you didn't spend a penny over £35 for that, there's old skool and then there's that. If it's just a school day commuter (not sure why you'd pick a full-susser for that) then okay, but I wouldn't be looking at it to be any sort of well suited MTB. The suspension will be wildly out of date and shot by now so not very efficient. The geo and set up as it is won't make it very nice to ride. Steep head angle, stupidly long stem & V-brakes.....not an ideal recipe.