F1

[AdamR28]

It's not quite as simple as that, when you're in the car and going balls out everywhere (I know F1 isn't like that because of other stupid rules, but hear me out :P) you literally don't have any grip left available to change direction / avoid an incident by carving a tighter turn, so you HAVE to run wide. This is fair enough IMO.

Running wide every f**king lap (Vettel) is definitely not on though, and it's relatively easy to police. There are pressure pads at a lot of UK circuits now which are linked to cameras - you get a pretty picture when you roll over them. Put the pressure pad a few inches further from the white line than the width of a car and hey presto, instant evidence that you WERE off track, then apply the penalty.

There are some cases where running wide does lose time, but with all these new concrete / astro run-offs and stuff I think these are few and far between. They manage ok at Monaco, and a 5s penalty is a lot better than having to rebuild a corner of the car...

[Mark W]

24 minutes ago, JD™ said:

Footballers complain, a lot. But you don't see them complaining when the ball goes outside the lines for a corner, goal kick or throw in. You don't see them arguing that there was a player on the floor in front of them acting like he'd been shot and so he had to exceed pitch limits to safely go around him, and they lost pace anyway so it shouldn't apply to them. If f**king footballers can play by a rule, surely F1 drivers can too, right?

Can't remember who it was now but I remember seeing an interview with a Premier League player who said that they were told from a very early age that you contest every decision if the ball goes out of play even if you know you were at fault because you never know if you might be able to sway the decision your way.  You can see that happening in plenty of games too, so it doesn't seem like it was an isolated thing, although I imagine that's just because it's a cultural thing for them now.

The thing about your rule is that there's a clear issue that needs to be solved, but your rule would - to me - unfairly impinge on a lot of things that are either already dealt with in a fair way or shouldn't really be penalised.  The timing loop system they used at Hungary would do the job fine if they rolled that out to other tracks, and if they dialled in the accuracy of it.  They could just set that to 0 or 1 for the amount of times you're allowed to do it, and you'd have neatly solved the issue of people deliberately going outside track limits to gain an advantage. 

By contrast, if you look at Vettel's move on Massa at Silverstone where he bombed down the inside, ran onto a wet patch and slid off, he forced Massa off there too because Massa was on the dry line, and was going with the right speed to make that corner.  Vettel was the one deemed at fault there, and because he totally f**ked that move up he negatively impacted Massa.  Massa lost a load of time there by basically having to stop to get the car to turn back onto track, and also by getting his slicks coated in water.  To then get a 5sec penalty doesn't really seem fair to me because, using your example above, it wasn't that he wilfully didn't slow down, he was just forced into that situation and there was no way out of it.  Vettel's move was illegal, so Massa getting penalised doesn't make much sense for me.  Rosberg/Hamilton at Austria too - the stewards ruled what Rosberg did was illegal and he was penalised for it, and that forced Hamilton into a position where he would then have unfairly been given a 5sec penalty.  If something happens that the driver couldn't have been reasonably expected to know was going to happen or predict was going to happen (in that instance, Rosberg was in his blind spot, he left him acres of space and had Rosberg had any intention of turning in it would have never happened), and that was deemed to have been caused by illegal actions from another driver, penalising the blameless driver in that instance as part of a rule designed to penalise people for something that was completely different doesn't make sense to me.

People sliding out at T1 and having to follow the access road until T3 seemed like a fair penalty for getting caught out by the damp patches there, and similarly at places like Monza where if you outbrake yourself at the first chicane you've got to trundle down that access road, thread the needle around that bollard-chicane then go back along the access road that seems like a fair penalty (for example Rosberg losing a position to Hamilton there).

Basically, my point is that they've got really precise trackers on the cars and already have the technology available to specifically target exploiting track limits to gain an advantage, so they'd be better served doing that rather than adding yet more penalties for random things, especially ones where arguably the driver wasn't necessarily at fault.

[JD™]

Humanity with it's obsession with 'fair' and 'fault' again. f**k fair, and f**k fault. We don't live in that world. 

The track is between the lines. If you're not on it, you're not on the track. Not fair? Not your fault? Not your game, go make your own up. This one's rulebook says that the track is between the lines.

[Mark W]

...right.

Anyway, radio ban being lifted - I see they can't make their mind up on that at all.  Just going from one badly thought out, knee-jerk reaction to another, seemingly.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

There's also an element of what it actually gains them. Vettel exceeding track limits might gain him what, 0.1s a lap? To penalise him (or any other driver who does it either on purpose or by accident) 5s just wouldn't work. I'd say they've got it fairly well set out anyway. They know the rules, they're being watched and if they look to be regularly taking the piss they're penalised. Job done. Also, to be fair, although I really dislike Vettel, if I was in anything other than a Mercedes I'd be looking to exploit every possible advantage as well!

[AdamR28]

0.1s a lap... 6-7s at the end of the race, that's a big difference.

[Mark W]

With how important track position is, and how tight the times are with pitstops, even just doing it a few times to get the undercut on someone would have a pretty big impact on a race simply due to gaining that place and then being able to hold off.  Verstappen held Raikonnen off in Spain and Hungary despite Raikonnen being quicker, so if you can eke your way into that position by making those little gains...

Sounds like they've been f**king with the limits over the weekend already, incidentally.  "Track limits don't mean anything" before FP1, then - using their sensors - they found there were over 100 instances of people exceeding track limits there.  They've now gone to the Hungary "3 strikes" rule with them now.  

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

What is wrong with Rosberg? Seriously. He honestly seems to believe that he's done nothing wrong again. f**ktard. 

[Mark W]

"Tell them I was at full lock."  

He's aware that they have these things called replays, right?  I mean, that's not even including the telemetry/data the team would have to give up to the stewards if they requested it.

Just read the Autosport article about it:

"It took me by surprise, definitely," he said. "I didn't expect a penalty for that.  

"It was racing. I was really ecstatic at the time because I thought 'wow, that was awesome, I came from miles behind'.  

"And I was very happy to get the position because that meant I would have got second place at least - it was damage limitation.

"I was very surprised to get a penalty for it."

willy.

Anyway, unrelated but this is pretty hefty:

 

[Rusevelt]

2 hours ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said:

What is wrong with Rosberg? Seriously. He honestly seems to believe that he's done nothing wrong again. f**ktard. 

Verstappen doesn't like the taste of his own medicine.

 

[kevind]

Probably been said before, but too much money involved,like other certain sports,  TV and how ever many organising committees  have made it into a soap opera which in these days TV viewing audience is what makes money (look at whats on TV nowadays anybody that watches Big brother should be neutered, but it has viewing figures) ,  Love the technology, but the racing, nah its like watching an episode of Eastenders. (which I dont do either) Caught the last race of the touring cars yesterday, now that was entertaining. Even managed to take one of the TV camera towers down at the start. How the TV guy walked away unhurt?

I dont know if its just Britain or its a world wide thing, but watch the drivers press conference and just listen to the questions presented by the various journalists. Our tabloid press are there and its cringy to listen to. But some of the drivers responses are brilliant.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

6 hours ago, Rusevelt said:

Verstappen doesn't like the taste of his own medicine.

It has nothing to do with Verstappen and everything to do with Nico having something of the Schumacher cunt gene in his system somewhere.

[manuel]

I missed it so just watched a couple of replays. I also watched the sky "analysis". Sky have the penalty as harsh, but the way he makes it so blatant is just brain dead. If he attempts to turn in earlier even if he locks up/understeers on a bit he probably doesn't get that penalty. Verstappen plays it pretty cool and keeps going to make a point, but rosberg coming on the radio and throw the toys out just makes it worse. Yeah, full lock about 10m too late!

I also don't think verstappen was really moving in the braking zone - it just looks like the racing line at that point, it's just rosberg going straight for so effing long makes it look bad.

[AdamR28]

Rosberg is such a turd.

[Rusevelt]

Car looks impressively quick on 2017 wet tyres in simulated conditions. Now I know how rain master Michael Schumacher, learned his craft of being so damn quick.

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by Rusevelt
Word edit

[JD™]

9 hours ago, Rusevelt said:

Now I know

 

Oh no, they're beginning to self learn.

I for one welcome our robot overlords.

[manuel]

[Rusevelt]

With both Hamilton and Alonso facing huge grid penalties this weekend, does this mean any outstanding number of grid penalties would be taken over to the next race?

[AdamR28]

No.

[Rusevelt]

So was Verstappen's defensive driving style questionable or just racing? 

Should a driver be allowed to sit in the middle of the road and then defend late into the braking zone.

[manuel]

As long as he doesn't get penalised, he can do whatever the hell he wants. 

I watched a bit of the race and I saw the bit where he watched rai choose a side on the kemmel straight and then block that move. It was pretty bad, but Charlie/driver stewards didn't give a shit, so I guess it's going to keep happening

[Rusevelt]

Well im sure the tifosi will something to say about that to Charlie & co if we see a repeat of this elbows out style of driving at Monza this weekend.

[Mark W]

Depends on the colour of the car.

 

[Rusevelt]

So Hamilton's bad start comes to haunt him once again. 

 

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I can't remember the last time he had a bad start. Pretty boring race I thought, very much 'meh'.