Jason222 Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) So I'm hella pissed about my new echo TR front brake that I ordered from tarty bikes. I took it out of the package and right away I noticed several design flaws, and the damn thing wasn't even bled properly. I played with it for a few days before I put it on a bike to see if it would leak or not with the standard oil bleed. It sure did. Then I took the master off and swapped magura slaves on and rebled with water. Holy fail. When completely full of water, and both bleed bolts closed, squeezing the lever actually did nothing to the slaves. 0 movement with a perfect bleed. I figured that it was the slaves that would leak, because that was always my experience in the past...but I guess both ends of deng brakes suck. I think shops need to stop stocking that garbage and letting consumers risk trying the damn things. I tried echo brakes in the past, they were shit then, and they're still shit now. I figured with the new TR design that deng would have got it right, especially after releasing brakes for a few years now... If deng doesn't want to get his shit in order, we as consumers need to advise against buying his stuff as much as possible. I'm pretty pissed that when I made a thread on here about getting one of these and swapping mag cylinders on it, people said it wouldn't leak... /END RANT Edited May 18, 2010 by Jason222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Soooo... was it actually leaking? If the pistons don't move when you pull the lever you're looking at a crap bleed. Or a really obvious, massive leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Ok so you're saying you had a faulty brake from the start? Then you water bled it to invalidate your warranty? And then came on here to moan about it? Nice one. They're known to have flaws from the start and some leak, so that would have put me off, but to then mess around and bleed it with a fluid that would invalidate your warranty and then moan about it on a public forum to remove all hope of that cause is a bit daft really. Don't think they need boycotting as some seem to work fine, it's an educated risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexor Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Ok so you're saying you had a faulty brake from the start? Then you water bled it to invalidate your warranty? And then came on here to moan about it? Nice one. They're known to have flaws from the start and some leak, so that would have put me off, but to then mess around and bleed it with a fluid that would invalidate your warranty and then moan about it on a public forum to remove all hope of that cause is a bit daft really. Don't think they need boycotting as some seem to work fine, it's an educated risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) Don't think they need boycotting as some seem to work fine, it's an educated risk. You shouldn't have to risk it when buying a new product though. Edited May 17, 2010 by BigAl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgnoseat Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 If you noticed all those flaws, why bother trying to fix it and risk f**king it. If there really were flaws tarty would have replaced it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira_Shock! Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Waterbleeding that Echo brake was a bad idea. Sure it works for an HS33, but the Echo series aren't made for that... no need to blame cos hydro brakes are designed for OIL, not water. we're just lucky that HS33s let us use water...so dont moan about Echos not working with water because thats not what theyre designed for. if you want to use water, u shouldve got an HS33 off the bat. if it looked faulty out of the box, you shouldve called tarty straight away. they are reasonable people and not bad businessman and ethically questionable people like some old shops that used to exist in the UK and don't anymore.. ehem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 When completely full of water, and both bleed bolts closed, squeezing the lever actually did nothing to the slaves. 0 movement with a perfect bleed. Perhaps the bleed isn't quite as perfect if they're not moving at all? How did you go about bleeding it? Sorry to hear you aren't having much luck with it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Ok so you're saying you had a faulty brake from the start? Then you water bled it to invalidate your warranty? And then came on here to moan about it? Nice one. They're known to have flaws from the start and some leak, so that would have put me off, but to then mess around and bleed it with a fluid that would invalidate your warranty and then moan about it on a public forum to remove all hope of that cause is a bit daft really. Don't think they need boycotting as some seem to work fine, it's an educated risk. That is a load of bollox, the product should work or not be sold at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason222 Posted May 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) Soooo... was it actually leaking? If the pistons don't move when you pull the lever you're looking at a crap bleed. Or a really obvious, massive leak. It was a good bleed for sure, I tried to get it work for over 2 hours with no success. I think the water creeped out the master when I pulled the lever blade... Ok so you're saying you had a faulty brake from the start? Then you water bled it to invalidate your warranty? And then came on here to moan about it? Nice one. They're known to have flaws from the start and some leak, so that would have put me off, but to then mess around and bleed it with a fluid that would invalidate your warranty and then moan about it on a public forum to remove all hope of that cause is a bit daft really. It was faulty, but it wasn't that bad. I bought the brake so that I could use the master with magura slaves, I was told that it would work...maguras work with water because the insides don't have steel parts and are corrosion resistant. Echo brakes don't work with water because they use the worst seals known to man. If you noticed all those flaws, why bother trying to fix it and risk f**king it. If there really were flaws tarty would have replaced it for you. Flaws as in design flaws, not manufacturing flaws. For example, when you pull the brake, the lever bottoms on the TPA adjuster before it hits the bar. Or when the lever isn't clamped to the bar, the master cylinder moves freely. There was something else I noticed, but I can't remember what it was. Perhaps the bleed isn't quite as perfect if they're not moving at all? How did you go about bleeding it? Sorry to hear you aren't having much luck with it though. The bleed was fine. I used a bucket bleed(and I realize this isn't the best way to bleed, but I'm really good at it), and tried to get it to work for the longest time...then gave up, put the 04 mag master back on, 4 minutes later it was rebled in the same bucket and working 100%. I haven't even mentioned the cheap lines echo has used from the get go. The danger from their ease of snapping is reason enough not to stock these brakes... What I'm trying to get at is that if so many of these brakes are known to leak or be faulty from the get go, why do shops keep selling them to us? Edited May 17, 2010 by Jason222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 The bleed was fine. Where theres something going on that your not noticing... if the bleed was perfect and the slaves were seized, you wouldnt be able to pull the lever without splitting a hose first.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunt man t Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) i brought a front TR brake from tarty... it was fine you stupid by invalidating the warranty, when you could of had a replacement Edited May 17, 2010 by stunt man t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronz Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 …if so many of these brakes are known to leak or be faulty from the get go, why do shops keep selling them to us? If you know that so many of these brakes are known to leak or be faulty from the get go, why do you bother buying them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunt man t Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 If you know that so many of these brakes are known to leak or be faulty from the get go, why do you bother buying them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aener Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 i brought a front TR brake from tarty... it was fine you stupid by invalidating the warranty, when you could of had a replacement Nice'n'helpful there Toby Haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Edwards Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 I got a brand new one from tarty, rode it once and started leaking from the lever body, pretty pissed off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 squeezing the lever actually did nothing to the slaves. 0 movement with a perfect bleed. It was a good bleed for sure, I tried to get it work for over 2 hours with no success. I think the water creeped out the master when I pulled the lever blade... Seeing as you seem to know so much about how to bleed a brake i guess there's not much point in telling you this but if you bleed it and pull the lever and there is zero movement whatsoever you've got one of two problems. 1. The bleed isn't any good. You've got air trapped in there somewhere and it's compressing more than the water meaning the movement of the slaves isn't correctly proportional to the displacement of the lever. If its the bleed at fault and there is zero slave movement then that's a lot of air, not just bubbles here and there. Unless its.... 2. A big old leak. Not just a small leak, as a small leak with a perfect bleed would still see piston movement as you displace the fluid in the lever. If there was zero movement you'd know exactly where the leak is because it'd be spraying out of a hose or streaming from a seal/barb. If the water "creeped out" the master cylinder then the slaves would still move a little and move progressively less as the water leaked out of the system. It might be a combination of the two, but you say you know what you're doing so it can't be that as it was a perfect bleed and seeing as you've currently contradicted yourself with what you've written i won't waffle on as i'm not entirely convinced there's much point in going into so much detail. Instead i'd merely suggest you re-read post number 2.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunt man t Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 I got a brand new one from tarty, rode it once and started leaking from the lever body, pretty pissed off its got a 6 month warranty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Flaws as in design flaws, not manufacturing flaws. For example, when you pull the brake, the lever bottoms on the TPA adjuster before it hits the bar. Or when the lever isn't clamped to the bar, the master cylinder moves freely. The master cylinder moving isn't a 'design flaw', it's just what happens because of how the clamp works. When the brake is in use, the lever is done up so the master cylinder won't move. No problem. Same goes for not being able to bottom your lever out on your bar. I don't know of anyone who likes their lever to bottom out on their bar, ergo it shouldn't really be a problem. I haven't even mentioned the cheap lines echo has used from the get go. The danger from their ease of snapping is reason enough not to stock these brakes... The hoses Echo use aren't 'cheap'. I also don't really understand where this perceived 'danger' of their 'ease of snapping' comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Edwards Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Yeh sending it back tomorow hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunt man t Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Seeing as you seem to know so much about how to bleed a brake i guess there's not much point in telling you this but if you bleed it and pull the lever and there is zero movement whatsoever you've got one of two problems. 1. The bleed isn't any good. You've got air trapped in there somewhere and it's compressing more than the water meaning the movement of the slaves isn't correctly proportional to the displacement of the lever. If its the bleed at fault and there is zero slave movement then that's a lot of air, not just bubbles here and there. Unless its.... 2. A big old leak. Not just a small leak, as a small leak with a perfect bleed would still see piston movement as you displace the fluid in the lever. If there was zero movement you'd know exactly where the leak is because it'd be spraying out of a hose or streaming from a seal/barb. If the water "creeped out" the master cylinder then the slaves would still move a little and move progressively less as the water leaked out of the system. It might be a combination of the two, but you say you know what you're doing so it can't be that as it was a perfect bleed and seeing as you've currently contradicted yourself with what you've written i won't waffle on as i'm not entirely convinced there's much point in going into so much detail. Instead i'd merely suggest you re-read post number 2.... to be honest though i bled my brake with water as it was out of warranty and its not leaked heard water is ok with this brake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krisboats Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 to be honest though i bled my brake with water as it was out of warranty and its not leaked heard water is ok with this brake I'm not saying or convinced it's water that's the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason222 Posted May 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) Seeing as you seem to know so much about how to bleed a brake i guess there's not much point in telling you this but if you bleed it and pull the lever and there is zero movement whatsoever you've got one of two problems. 1. The bleed isn't any good. You've got air trapped in there somewhere and it's compressing more than the water meaning the movement of the slaves isn't correctly proportional to the displacement of the lever. If its the bleed at fault and there is zero slave movement then that's a lot of air, not just bubbles here and there. Unless its.... 2. A big old leak. Not just a small leak, as a small leak with a perfect bleed would still see piston movement as you displace the fluid in the lever. If there was zero movement you'd know exactly where the leak is because it'd be spraying out of a hose or streaming from a seal/barb. If the water "creeped out" the master cylinder then the slaves would still move a little and move progressively less as the water leaked out of the system. It might be a combination of the two, but you say you know what you're doing so it can't be that as it was a perfect bleed and seeing as you've currently contradicted yourself with what you've written i won't waffle on as i'm not entirely convinced there's much point in going into so much detail. Instead i'd merely suggest you re-read post number 2.... I'm pretty sure any pressure from the lever was forcing water out the master cylinder. I changed the master to an 04 magura, rebled in a few minutes, and the brake worked great...its most definitely the echo Tr crap master... Edited May 17, 2010 by Jason222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunt man t Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) I'm pretty sure any pressure from the lever was forcing water out the master cylinder. running my water bled rear brake for a few weeks now and no probs remember though it was out of warranty so if i did use water it wouldnt matter i realy struggled using blood and a sryinge from a maggy service kit water in a bath bleed worked first time Edited May 17, 2010 by stunt man t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason222 Posted May 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 The hoses Echo use aren't 'cheap'. I also don't really understand where this perceived 'danger' of their 'ease of snapping' comes from. Have you ever used one on one of your bikes? I can break an echo line with my hands. running my water bled rear brake for a few weeks now and no probs The luck of the draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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