Power?

[rich4130]

I was just watching a video (Dan Holroyds 'latest' one..) and its made me wonder something..

How can some people have so much 'power' or 'pop', and others, who are doing the exact same thing, not have anywhere near as much?

I used to think it was just physical strength, but it can't be, in the vid, he bunnyhops onto railings, that are massive, just using a normal bunnyhop, he just seems to be able to produce so much upwards force, maybe I'm reading to much into it, he's really good, and I'm not, but its struck me.

A guy I know can static up bar height +, and he's smaller than me, and I'm struggling with wheelheight stuff, and yet he seems to be able to produce so much more upwards thrust almost, than me, even when doing the same thing, it can't all be down to bad technique?

As im writing this its just crying out, 'there better than you' but there must be something, muscle explosive-ness?!

rich.

[Hobnobs]

I know what you mean, for example, many spanish monty riders just explode and fly upwards.

Im tempted to go with the "all technique" approach, as they waste less energy doing it wrong, they can transfer it all into force.....

[butcha87]

Probably they have higher proportions of muscle fibre that is used for more esxplosive movements etc. :">

Nah,seriously would like an answer to this, I've always wondered as well.

[Ali C]

I am pretty sure its all down to technique, they have muscle memory or somthing, so they dont have to think about it so much and it looks easy, they have just done it so much every little movement they make helps with the move.

[Joe Papasnap Maher]

I was just watching a video (Dan Holroyds 'latest' one..)

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Got a link??

[rich4130]

Got a link??

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Linky to topic

[Caleb]

Shit the shack is down and that topic was in september B)

[Josephine]

The faster the fibres in your muscles twitch the more explosive force they have, the asian races (that is to say chinese, russian etc) tend to have far better twitch than westerners purely through genetics, which is why they clean up on the gymnastics events at the olympics, but i digress.

Basically the speed your muscles contract at is determined by the length of the fibres that go to make them up, long fibres being slower, they are however more efficient over a period of time making them better for say, running. Practicing stuff like that will also determine how far towards each of the scale your muscles are.

So, in conclusion if you want to sidehop like Ros, don't train by running long distances B)

[rich4130]

Shit the shack is down and that topic was in september  B)

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Shit yea, I thought it was on eengodidde oops.. sure somebody has it and could msn it though.

[PaRtZ]

The faster the fibres in your muscles twitch the more explosive force they have, the asian races (that is to say chinese, russian etc) tend to have far better twitch than westerners purely through genetics, which is why they clean up on the gymnastics events at the olympics, but i digress. 

Basically the speed your muscles contract at is determined by the length of the fibres that go to make them up, long fibres being slower, they are however more efficient over a period of time making them better for say, running.  Practicing stuff like that will also determine how far towards each of the scale your muscles are.

So, in conclusion if you want to sidehop like Ros, don't train by running long distances  B)

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Yeah what he said. Its springiness basically. Go jump everywhere you go, but jump as high as you can. no lol only joking

I dont really know how this can be "trained" as im more of a prac....sod it, im a dunce... just ask your local PE person for advice

[butcha87]

Plyometrics

[Matt Staples]

I am pretty sure its all down to technique, they have muscle memory or somthing, so they dont have to think about it so much and it looks easy, they have just done it so much every little movement they make helps with the move.

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Exactly right.

It really is as simple as 'practice makes perfect'.

Edited June 30, 2005 by Matt

[Simon]

Exactly right.

It really is as simple as 'pracice makes perfect'.

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Hexactly. Mr switch-side-switch-foot.

For instance, when i do this gap on our sea front, i have to put so much effort in, and land hanging really far over my back wheel, and struggling to keep my front up. My friend does it, and lands it almost upright, like it was a normal gap.

I put effort in, and just made it, he put no effort it, and made it perfect.

Its mostly technique, which i lack by the country load, hence me finding it so difficult compared to someone else.

[AndyT]

If you want to see something funny....before you go to bed every night, do 2 sets of 10 jumps as high as you can possibly go. After a month you will be jumping alot higher (for example when I did this I gained ~4")- and you will notice a big difference in your riding.

This is the most basic form of training for explosiveness...I could give you 40 page articles on plyometrics and dynamic stretching and all kinds of info that would hurt your brain. You are only born with a certain amount of fast twitch muscle fibers but you can train them.

[DrEvil270183]

there are some exercises that TRA does that help loads, pretty dangerous if you do too much at once, meant to do a tiny amount at first and build up from there.

i cant remember there names but they have been on here loads of time before.

that will help with sidehops etc, but Danny holroyd bunny hopping, gapping etc, id says it more down to technique and skill.

when you first start back hopping/stalling...its hard, but soon you can sit on the back wheel making lil adjustments...same with gapping, at first its weird, then you learn to drop front wheel low, get weight through to stem etc...

its all practise at first, then pros etc...those funny names exercises help give you the edge B)

[Matt Staples]

If you want to see something funny....before you go to bed every night, do 2 sets of 10 jumps as high as you can possibly go.  After a month you will be jumping alot higher (for example when I did this I gained ~4")- and you will notice a big difference in your riding.

This is the most basic form of training for explosiveness...I could give you 40 page articles on plyometrics and dynamic stretching and all kinds of info that would hurt your brain.  You are only born with a certain amount of fast twitch muscle fibers but you can train them.

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It has already begun... B)

[i_rule_the_world]

ali c is right.

it is technique but also big part is psychology. psychology separates the winners.

i done a few p.e. projects on trials and techniques etc, used computer programs for figuring out force produced by muscles speed etc.

and there ain't much difference between power generated from me (bad technique) and power generated from tunni. most of time get the sternum of body up to same level but not the bike, so technique is key.

watch videos of yourself compare to others visualize etc,

but technique can only take u so far, after that it is psychology, if you believe you can do summit you ARE more likely to do it than if u are unsure.

look at the article that TRA wrote a while ago about psycology, very good reading. cant find link though, had summit about a pink dragon in it lol

i never thought p.e. would come in useful again, anyways hope this helps

[TrashZen]

I am pretty sure its all down to technique, they have muscle memory or somthing, so they dont have to think about it so much and it looks easy, they have just done it so much every little movement they make helps with the move.

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I reckon there is a lot of technique into pulling large moves, that helps extract 100% of the bouncing effects you can get from a bike (tires, frame etc..) to combine it with your own springiness. That perfect synchronisation would really give you a boost, more than just 1+1 = 2 but some sort of synergy and amplified effect... :)

Brute force doesn't work :S

I remember a friend of mine starting trials and getting so frustrated on some basic moves, because he was clearly physically stronger than anyone else, but couldn't pull a decent back hop even by pulling like a maniac...And with much less effort, anyone of us were bouncing crazy. B)

[Matt Staples]

As is said loads, the mind plays a big part. Gritting your teeth, and saying to yourself, 'I will do this' (along with hitting your fist against your helmet and growling) works great for me B) .

You tend to also hit things harder and faster with a bit of aggression.

[Julien]

I find it entertaining reading people's ill-informed and generally stupid comments.

Yes technique plays a huge role in how high you can side-hop, tap-up and how far you can gap, but to not acknowledge that basic genetics play a major role in the power, height, distance etc.. you can generate is just plain stupid. This is no different than any other sport that requires power (ie. tennis, high-jump, sprinting, basketball etc..)

I'm not sure if its that some of you can't come to terms with the fact that however hard you train you are probably never going to come close to Vince, Dani and Benito in power moves. Or is it that you just dropped out of school at a young age and never covered sports science or basic physiology. World class sport is the domain of of the genetic elite "the freak", accept it guys, its only when a sport is in its infancy that those less well equipped genetically can make it.

[AndyT]

I find it entertaining reading people's ill-informed and generally stupid comments.

Yes technique plays a huge role in how high you can side-hop, tap-up and how far you can gap, but to not acknowledge that basic genetics play a major role in the power, height, distance etc.. you can generate is just plain stupid. This is no different than any other sport that requires power (ie. tennis, high-jump, sprinting, basketball etc..)

I'm not sure if its that some of you can't come to terms with the fact that however hard you train you are probably never going to come close to Vince, Dani and Benito in power moves. Or is it that you just dropped out of school at a young age and never covered sports science or basic physiology. World class sport is the domain of of the genetic elite "the freak", accept it guys, its only when a sport is in its infancy that those less well equipped genetically can make it.

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Maybe if they had dropped out of school at 5 years old to train trials they would be as good as the rest B)

There aren't enough riders in trials for genetics to separate the great from the poor YET. It's still in its severe infancy.

[Dai the Socket]

I hate not having correct technique. It's so f**king hard to get.

I can't get any further in gaps at all B)

Need to start front touching toooo

[Dai the Socket]

As is said loads, the mind plays a big part. Gritting your teeth, and saying to yourself, 'I will do this' (along with hitting your fist against your helmet and growling) works great for me B) .

You tend to also hit things harder and faster with a bit of aggression.

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Eek. Another post :)

I think that's the thing. I distinctly remember one riding session.

In huddersfield with a couple of local mates, Nadine included. We were doin' some rails and i was determined to do them. Rick did them and I wanted to do them so bad.

I just didn't talk to anyone for like 20 mins and just kept going at them, again and again.

Progressing to the next rail every few trys. At the end I could do them all perfect, even backwards. When you get angry, you just go for stuff.

To be fair, yeah, my frame got raped a bit in the process (not having my armourdillo on didn't help it's re-sale price) but it's gotta be done. A bike ridden well is usually a bike that's wrecked. :S

[Littleharrys]

Alot of them are pro athletes and train/ride all the time which helps. Also some of it maybe down to differnt gear ratios.

Harry.

[Bionic Balls]

Someone mentioned TRA being mental and all that.... :S"

the article about psychology is on http://www.miketrials.ca (under "miketrials" tutorials etc.)

Sidehopping over a string on my patio is exactly what this thread seems to be about....one day i'll do 35" and land really hard, and struggle to get any higher. Then i'll visualize it over and over, think my technique through again and again, and suddenly i can do 38" and land it properly.

Really focus on what you are trying to do- don't do it not knowing exactly what you are trying to do....if you get me... B)

adam