Power?

[JIX]

It comes down to having both proper or good technique and the physical power and strength to carry it out.

Thats why you get people who are very powerful but with bad technique that can sidehop say 40inches.

And the other guy who is not very powerful at all side hopping the same height because he has good technique.

If his powerful friend learnt the proper technique then he would go alot higher and his friend wouldnt be able to match his height.

When you see benito and the others side hop it is a combination of good technique and power that gives the height.

On the genetic's side of things you are born with a set % of fast switch and slow twitch muscle fibres. You cannot change that. There are however muscle fibres that can be either ( i cant remember their name). Basically if you practised side hopping over a bar in your garden say twice a week then these muscle fibres will become more fast twitch than slow twitch so you will gain some extra power but other than that you are how you are.

Plyometric exercises are very dangerous, but can be very effective.

Sorry I have gone on alot, there is so much interesting stuff on this like flexibility playing a massive role and elastic capability.

If your really interested just search on google for stuff like fast twich muscle fibre, plyometrics, flexibility and you will find so much info.

[MrMonkey]

I find it entertaining reading people's ill-informed and generally stupid comments.

Yes technique plays a huge role in how high you can side-hop, tap-up and how far you can gap, but to not acknowledge that basic genetics play a major role in the power, height, distance etc.. you can generate is just plain stupid. This is no different than any other sport that requires power (ie. tennis, high-jump, sprinting, basketball etc..)

I'm not sure if its that some of you can't come to terms with the fact that however hard you train you are probably never going to come close to Vince, Dani and Benito in power moves. Or is it that you just dropped out of school at a young age and never covered sports science or basic physiology. World class sport is the domain of of the genetic elite "the freak", accept it guys, its only when a sport is in its infancy that those less well equipped genetically can make it.

←

Erm nice, one problem, genetics don't determine what you're going to do in your life. SOOOO from this we can tell that you can't be genetically good at a sport, you can be more adapted to it, but you ain't gonna be automatically good at it. Unless that's what you were trying to say.

[AndyT]

One thing vincent said, that most of us guys from fort collins are much stronger than he is...but we don't have the technique. He said if we had the same technique we could go higher because of our power.

At the top level, once we have thousands of riders trying to be that level, genetics will play a factor (right now we jsut have a few dozen riders riding at that level)...right now the balance between technique/mental/power is the most important thing for those at the top...many have technique and power, but not the mental aspect- or technique and a good mind but no power. Very few have mastered all 3.

[PaRtZ]

I find going "RRRRRRRAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!" whilst doing the move helps :(

try it, especially when theres other people around. You'd be surprised at how much of a nut they'll think you are :(

[chrishayton]

its defenatly technique i think. im not really strong but i can gap over 8 ft and backwheel rails quite easily. but i work on my technique alot. i think your muscles develop to riding trials and allow you to do things bigger but only if you got the technique sorted first

[DrEvil270183]

i agree with the "mastering all three" thing.

i find that i sometimes think my techniques is right, but when i watch it back on video im going wrong.

like drop gaps, lift the bike up an over and stretching legs out to landing, i picture that and sometime i watch video of me lift up an out too fast before ive reached my peak height.

so yeah, technique will be major part.

[AndyT]

I should add that strength doesn't mean doing 500 lb deadlifts...but functional strength. You could be strong as hell in the weightroom, but you can't necessarily translate that strength onto a bike because you aren't trained to use your strength in the right way....which is where technique comes in.

[Will Arnold]

why are plyometrics dangerous? do they make you pass out or something? (Y)

[Julien]

Erm nice, one problem, genetics don't determine what you're going to do in your life. SOOOO from this we can tell that you can't be genetically good at a sport, you can be more adapted to it, but you ain't gonna be automatically good at it. Unless that's what you were trying to say.

←

Twin studies beg to differ on that point mate. Genetics does play a major role in what path you will follow in life, and I did not say you would be automatically good at a sport, many people tend to gravitate towards areas of their life that they are good at, be it sport or academically.

People seem to be talking about strength a lot. A trials bike doesn't weigh a lot. The only awesome tank of a rider I've seen is Dani Comas and he appeared to tank up after being out injured for a year or two. Some of the riders like CLS, and Tunnicliffe look dangerously skinny, it looks like they are doing a bit of cross-training for high jump. You could probably put a 15yo football player in the gym and he could out squat and bench them, but who could sidehop higher.

You guys watched Federer in the semi's, amazing power, and racket speed, technique, placement etc.... He could not lift much at the gym. I could guarantee that, I could assure you that if tanking up would help the power of his serve/shots, he would have done it.

[JIX]

Lets all remeber that power comes from rapid contraction of your muscles.

People who lift weights get stronger but not more powerful because they are training their muscles to contract slowly.

[trialsking 55]

been doing some ploymetric exercises and did quite alot :- but my ankle now hurts so i think i'll give it a rest and do some more later (Y)

[downhill_rob2@hotmail.com]

Try and make your moves less "egsaguratet" (haha cummon, gotta be the worst speeling ever!!) they try and move all that movment into power?

Iv been looking at some koxx days vids, and they seam to get up rocks about 6 inches over bar height with about 1 1/2 bikes lenght run up, been looking into their techneque, and they seam to pedal from where they start all the way up athe wall, they dont seam tto stop pedaling into the have left the floor

[munkee]

up rocks about 6 inches over bar height with about 1 1/2 bikes lenght run up, been looking into their techneque, and they seam to pedal from where they start all the way up athe wall, they dont seam tto stop pedaling into the have left the floor

←

Soon as you stop pedalling you slow down, lose power and don't get up the rock. With street you can get away with not pedalling constantly because your ona surface that is flat and has good grip = no wheel spin. On natural you will be hard pushed to find something that is truley flat and even if you do your more than likely going to wheel spin if you coast in to something and try to put all the power down at once.

The pedaling constantly is the only way you can do short run ups, especially on a uphill section.

[JIX]

Plus I think it looks loads better if you dont stop pedaling.

Smoother.

[AndyT]

why are plyometrics dangerous? do they make you pass out or something? (Y)

←

it is very explosive and has high risk of pulling a muscle or other injury if you don't know what you are doing/do the technique wrong.

Edited July 2, 2005 by AndrewT

[Mark W]

That's one of the good things about trials I guess (and one reason I'm way prefering BMX at the moment).

Basically, you learn all the simple, basic moves, then you spend most of your life just trying to get them bigger (as a by-product, you learn to do other stuff, but you don't suddenly go out and front touch a 98ft wall, you do 12", then maybe 15, 20, etc.). Because of this, you gradually build up strength as and when you need it, simply because of the repetition of the moves. For this reason, I'm pretty strong with trialsy muscles (just 'cos I ride with a gay technique, just ask anyone who watched me backwheeling at the Deej ride (Y)), but puny faggots could probably beat me in an arm wrestle. However, a consequence of all this is that I have the strength to do moves, but don't have excess muscle I don't need. The reason plyometrics work better than just weight lifting is because of the fact you have different muscle fibres. You have slow twitch and fast twitch, and for trials you're better off developing the fast twitch muscles because you use explosive power more. Therefore, doing XXXlbs of weights just doing bench presses isn't going to do shit, really. It might feel like it is, but when you're pushing it you'll develop the trialsy muscles still, but be lugging round the excess.

Or at least that's how I've found it.

Because for the first like 3 years I rode I was a ball-less puss-ass, I didn't really progress onto bigger stuff, but just got the techniques for most things dialled. Now I've actually started doing big (for me) stuff, it's useful having the more control from having the technique right. So basically, I'd say the technique and power thing are kinda linked intrinsically anyway, and it's just the mental side that needs to be developed most for me.

Sorry if I'm repeating what someone else has said/meant...

[Tomm]

Your technique isn't shit Mark. Anyone that can backwheel 48" or whatever it was can't possibly have a shit technique. Maybe it's an unfashionable technique though (Y)

But if you do lots of bench presses and that, you'll have lovely strong arms that look good in tight T-shirts.

[Mark W]

Your technique isn't shit Mark.  Anyone that can backwheel 48" or whatever it was can't possibly have a shit technique.  Maybe it's an unfashionable technique though (Y)

←

Yeah, but what I was getting at was that if I used the official Trials-Forum/UCI syndicated backwheeling technique, I might've been able to sail up walls higher than I can using my "Prove Lewis and Bennifer wrong" technique (Y)

[Tomm]

Nah. You can't tap high walls on a T-Pro - it's too short (Y)

[Mark W]

Nah.  You can't tap high walls on a T-Pro - it's too short (Y)

←

Way to add to my "Do _____ to prove _______" wrong list, Tomm (Y) As if it's not full enough all ready (Y)

[hazzyhaslam]

Ive seen people tap quite high on the old megamo's! now theyre short! My mate from round my way does and is keeping up with most of the stock lads.

[Ben Swales]

Or is it that you just dropped out of school at a young age and never covered sports science or basic physiology.

i'm still in full time education at 21, and i've never covered sports science or physiology. you're the only one who's offered their opinion in such a condescending and aggressive way. did you drop out of school at a young age and miss out on developing social skills?

[biketrialler]

All of the great riders seem very confident in themselves. If they have learn something before, they know they can do it again and WILL, as they have no doubt about it, but maybe you do so cant ride consistently or nail massive moves due to fear. Thats gotta play a part somewhere...

[TrashZen]

All of the great riders seem very confident in themselves.  If they have learn something before, they know they can do it again and WILL, as they have no doubt about it, but maybe you do so cant ride consistently or nail massive moves due to fear.  Thats gotta play a part somewhere...

←

Yep,

as soon as you loose confidence in Trials, you'r dead. Some days are just like that, and I won't pull anything 'cause I become paranoid about my chain, or my fork or the stickers or whatever... (Y)

Some other days I just don't care, I feel like trying just everything... (Y)

[Twilite]

Just been doing some reading on Plyometrics, and it looks interesting. I guess that's what TRA is doing in that old vid where he's jumping with weights on his back?

Anyone tried these exercises and noticed any difference? I was always for just progressing by improving technique, but stuck upping stupidly small walls for a long time, maybe a little extra power would do me some good?

Anyone like to have a guess at the technique-strength ratio? I'd probably place it as high as 85-15?