BenLeacock™ Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Hopefully the Uk team will have there brakes in the next month, ill stick a reveiw up when i get them !Edit: dan the pictures show parts that have been riden thats why they look so ''shit''. I'll mention it ! Edited July 31, 2008 by BenLeacock™ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMack Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 If they need a website designed... (A) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-i-t-c-h Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) No, making the brake cylinder bigger will make it more powerfull, but it will mean that if it is run with a magura lever for example you would need to set the brake up closer to the rim, anybody remember RB levers that had a 13mm piston instead of the magura 14mm, brake was more powerfull, but more spongey and you had to set the pads closer to the rim.Hate to be a pain, but making the cylinder bigger at one end will make the increased size end weaker, that's kind of a irrefutable engineering fact. Fill two different width syringes up with water and a hose joining them. If you try and hold the plungers in its much harder from big syringe to small. not the other way around as in the case of this brake design.Regarding the RB lever, it was weaker, hence it was spongy, by setting your brake up closer to rim you made it stronger, (as you reduced travelling distance blah). If you didn't move the brakes and just changed the levers the RB would be weaker. Its not 25% stronger. Unless it comes with a free parallel universe. Edited July 31, 2008 by M-i-t-c-h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 If you try and hold the plungers in its much harder from big syringe to small.Exactly, because the small cross sectional area of the smaller syringe is exerting more pressure (eg. 13mm master piston on an RB lever instead of 14mm on HS33... similarly, increasing slave system diameter has the same effect).So, the brake isn't '25% stronger', but the system is easily capable of offering 25% more mechanical advantage by simply increasing the diameter of the slave pistons.... downsides, as Bigman said, are spongy lever feeling and having to set the cylinders/pads closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-i-t-c-h Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Big syringe would be the lever, and small be the brake cylinder right? so by making the brake cylinder larger your decreasing the pressure. effectively making the lever smaller in ratio.I did read earlier that it may have been translated from Russian, so maybe it didn't translate quite right.edit: 25% more advantage maybe, but you would have to increase the levers diameter to by double to get 25% i swear haha. Edited July 31, 2008 by M-i-t-c-h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigman Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Big syringe would be the lever, and small be the brake cylinder right? so by making the brake cylinder larger your decreasing the pressure. effectively making the lever smaller in ratio.Nope, small syringe is the lever, big syringe would be the pistons.Have you ever realy done any engineering theory? I do know what i am talking about, as does Adam.EDIT: One fairly good example actualy would be between the standard hope mono mini and the mono trials, both brakes use the mini lever, which if i am correct uses a 9mm cylinder, in a standard mono mini the pistons are around 20mm diameter where as in a mono trials they are around 25mm, and we all know which is the more pwerful brake, but as i said earlier, the mono trials, because of this would be slightly more spongey and would require the pads to be closer to the disc to get the same lever movement.Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 http://auto.howstuffworks.com/brake1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLeacock™ Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 I don't get the engerniering side, but I no that HEN have also made there own lever which he said balances the pistons or something Ill find out now ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-i-t-c-h Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Your right adam i bow to your wisdom. My explianiion for being a cock is my knowledge is in pneumatics, we use it the other way round. i will leave hydraulics to the big boys. Quite honestly..... i feel abit embarrassed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigman Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Your right adam's i bow to your wisdom. My explianiion for being a cock is my knowledge is in pneumatics, we use it the other way round. i will leave hydraulics to the big boys. Quite honestly..... i feel abit embarrassed!:cough:EDIT: I agree with what Adam is about to say......Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Aaahh... Isn't it the same for pneumatics though? Since air is also a fluid and thus behaves like liquid.Either way, glad you've got it now Can be quite confusing!i will leave hydraulics to the big boys.Why thank you, although I am a small boy in comparison with other Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-i-t-c-h Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) pneumatics systems i work on starts unpressurised. where are hydraulic systems are locked or pressurised to start with. so our systems push air into smaller spaces to create pressure. This is where i was getting confused.Edit: and now i read it it again i think your were being sarcastic ..... Edited July 31, 2008 by M-i-t-c-h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 pneumatics systems i work on starts unpressurised. where are hydraulic systems are locked or pressurised to start with. so our systems push air into smaller spaces to create pressure. This is where i was getting confused.Edit: and now i read it it again i think your were being sarcastic .....Oh Mitch, Mitch, Mitch-a-roo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-i-t-c-h Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 shut up dave, you and me were both sure that the 25% thing was wrong like a hour ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 My point at the start of the thread though was that if all you do is increase the size of the slave pistons, while still using a standard maggy lever, the pads would physically move a smaller distance for a given lever pull than when using normal maggy slaves. That would mean you'd get more powerful braking when the pads touch the rim but to get them to touch in the first place you'd have to run the pads really close to the rim itself and end up being screwed with a slight buckle.And yeah, as Adam(s?) says, air is just a fluid and so pneumatics must act in exactly the same way (in a closed system) as oil/water/whatever since they are both effectively incompressible under normal atmospheric conditions.(exhales sharply through nose) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-i-t-c-h Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 aaahhhhh nooo back pedaling here dave! you made it quite clear to me what you thought of this 25% stuff. Yer good point though with the rim. Yer and the system i mod arnt closed. I know where i went wrong..... Sweet top in that picture btw! i like badge. and i didnt know you had glasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Sweet top in that picture btw! i like badge. and i didnt know you had glasses.Cheers m'dears. The shirt only comes out on special occasions and I'm virtually blind... so short sighted you wouldn't believe. I think the 'H' on the forehead just finishes off the look nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Pretty cool design, however until its been through testing stage we wont know the true performance of this item. Also I am skeptical about the quality of these: HENO Piston Parts Quality, Hopefully the production items will be finished off with precision:DI suspect the scoring on the outside of the piston is from the return spring, as long as it doesnt do the same to the cylinder bore then it should be fine How tight is the fit between the piston and locking ring? My only real concern would be the scoring on the piston potentially catching on the lock ring if it gets much worse - personally I would have considered some sort of plastic (nylon or HDPE) bearing ring inside of the lock ring, it would also help stop the piston twisting in the bore at larger extensions Are they any lower profile than maguras? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLeacock™ Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Just a little update people, been speaking to the guys at hen again today, found out abit more. There is going to be 2 models of the brake, the HBS1 and the HBS2. Both have the same performance and quality, just the HBS2, is the lightweight version, were as HBS1 is the simple version. The prices for the HBS1 will SLIGHTLY more than a HS33, comes with lever, hose, hen hose spliter and pistons. HBS2 comes with the same, but will be around the same price as a dengura. I will try get some close up pics of the lever later, i have some computer designs that i will stick up when i find them ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 ...Looking at the lever, the piston would run parrallel to the bars. I was of the understanding that the better design is to have the lever piston at 90 degrees to the bars as with echo levers and the newer magie levers? A friend of mine who completed as automotive engineering course mentioned this in passing, I imagine the reason is something to do with the echo and new hs33 levers allowing your finger to pull in the direction of the force meaning the lever is more comfortable and easier to exert pressure on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLeacock™ Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 (edited) More pics of the lever!This might not be the final lever, there is 2 ideas !HSB1 lever! HSB2 lever! Edited August 1, 2008 by BenLeacock™ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 More pics of the lever!This might not be the final lever, there is 2 ideas !Really not convinced this guy knows what he's doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLeacock™ Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Really not convinced this guy knows what he's doing...LOL, i got abit confused with him sending me loads of pics and shiz, but there is going to be two models of brakes, HBS1 + HBS2. HBS1 will be a cheaper brake more basic with the first style or lever, were as HBS2 will be a lightweight more advanced brake with the second lever. I don't get the engerneering and all that, so can't comment if he does or doesnt no! Im sure one of the adams will check this out later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Hmm... there are a few points I could make on the lever/blade CAD which don't seem to make sense design-wise... Even those headsets HEN make that use a protruding caphead bolt instead of a nice countersunk one. Just points to someone without much design sense. Hoping to be proven wrong when the brake's released though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Its hard enough to design and get one brake to be sucessfull nevermind 2. Not really convinced by there products at all and i sharn't be purchaseing. I just dont think enough design is put into the products such as releaseing pictures of the booster which clearly wasnt fitting right, and also that should of been thought of and designed around. If these turn out to be great i take it back thoug and my view will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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