Rob Leech Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hi all, I've been pondering this for a while really and was just wondering what you lot think would be a reasonable price for a custom made aluminium frame? Considering the extra work that has to go into aluminium (mainly heat treatment) and the obvious weight advantages over steel, i was thinking that 300 for a basic setup (ie- pretty standard machining work, simple tube sets, etc,etc) would be a good price for a frame that has had the desired input from yourself. There could also the option of more technical structural work (bb yoke, custom head tube, carbon fibre additions, in-built booster, tensioning systems), but would people actually want to pay more for this? I understand that this is very much a personal subject and that some people will have very different views on very small things, but any opinion is a help in this matter . Cheers, Josh. and this is just a ponder btw, nothing serious like . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leistonbmx Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Have varying prices, cheaper for simple stuff, more expensive depending on amount of time and work needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rab shropshire Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I would say around the 300 mark would be more than reasonable, the only problem i can forsee is peoples trust in the brand, you would need to get a few frames out to riders for testing to build the companies reputation, and to cement peoples confidence your work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann2707 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I would say around the 300 mark would be more than reasonable, the only problem i can forsee is peoples trust in the brand, you would need to get a few frames out to riders for testing to build the companies reputation, and to cement peoples confidence your work Completely agree..... my frame is on it's way out.... you know... just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Dunstan Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 You need to think of a few factors. How much you're materials are worth, and what you think you're labor is worth, as in how long you take to produce each frame. It also really depends on the quality of the finished product. If you were to spend weeks making it, and it turns out flawed, then you couldn't really make money on it. Hope that made sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence--Trials Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'd test ride your frames more than happily (A) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 If you were able to churn out a decent quality product from £300 then you'd be doing great When you think how Clive Leeson was churning frames out at £400+ years back, that's more than reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_ruskin Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'd love to try one of your frames Josh! Would pay 300 easy if i had the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 If you could make a frame that looks like a ciguena, and it has even better dropouts, brake mounts, a one-piece yoke/bb shell, and a pimp cutout on the headtube, I would pay over £300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannytrialskid Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) Get some REALLY GOOD riders to ride your frames (if possible) and then when people see that the frame is holding out for them, that would then get you some decent rep. Also I think that price is fair, and I would presume paying extra for add-ons such as in-built booster would be fair too. Would the price be cheaper for 20" as well as less material is used and more likely less work (i presume?). Just a few general questions about your frames: How much did it weigh after? How has it held out, did it dent easy (if dented), cracks, snap, creases? I would be interested in getting one custom made from you, however only had my limey 320 for about 4-5 months so wont be any time soon Sounds good though, will be interesting to see how this works out for you. - Topic Watched. Take into account the following: Material cost - try and split the cost to a one unit price. Labor cost - should be one set price for 20" and a little more for 26" as more work is needed. Then add a little extra on for some profit. - MARK UP PRICING. Shipping wouldn't be included as you would add that on afterwards. Edited February 14, 2011 by dannytrialskid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think there is a NEED for this in the trials market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 If you were able to churn out a decent quality product from £300 then you'd be doing great When you think how Clive Leeson was churning frames out at £400+ years back, that's more than reasonable People were cool with that because they could just re-weld and re-weld and re-weld Leeson frames (as most people had to). It's not quite the same with aluminium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannytrialskid Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 People were cool with that because they could just re-weld and re-weld and re-weld Leeson frames (as most people had to). It's not quite the same with aluminium. Yeah, there are no aluminium welders near me at all! I'd test ride your frames more than happily (A) +1 on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I would say around the 300 mark would be more than reasonable, the only problem i can forsee is peoples trust in the brand, you would need to get a few frames out to riders for testing to build the companies reputation, and to cement peoples confidence your work Agree completely with what your saying. If it where to start up, i already have a few people at varying levels that have said they would test the frames for me (which is greatly appreciated) and luckily enough the trials community, in my eyes anyway, seems to be one of the freindliest and most social around, so i think that simply testing through riders would assure people of the products finish quality. You need to think of a few factors. How much you're materials are worth, and what you think you're labor is worth, as in how long you take to produce each frame. It also really depends on the quality of the finished product. If you were to spend weeks making it, and it turns out flawed, then you couldn't really make money on it. Hope that made sense. I have taken these factors into consideration with my pricing above, but only for the much simpler frames. This is a good point, which is why i'd probably make a good few frames to go through testing before offering any sort of service. The main thing i would like to know peoples veiws on is, in a sort of way, originality, which is one of the main things i would try and aim for in frame building. I've got a couple of ideas that would take alot more work at production level, but would also show benefits for the riders in general. I also think that something as simple as your own design incorperated into one of the parts of a frame would have a personal benefit, everyone loves saying this is mine and its the only one . Cheers for the comments guys . Josh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 People were cool with that because they could just re-weld and re-weld and re-weld Leeson frames (as most people had to). It's not quite the same with aluminium. Indeed, but now the attitude has largely shifted to lightweight kit, with a lot of people seeing it as almost 'disposable' to an extent BITD frames weren't all tending towards £700+, so the likes of Leeson and Curtis were priced high but it was a one off, custom product so people would plump up for it. To churn out a custom alu frame starting at £300 ten years down the line is a pretty sweet gig, provided they're not heaps of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannytrialskid Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 You should make a variety such as beginner bikes, intermediate bike and more expensive higher quality bikes. Obviously you wont want to rush into that sort of thing, could be a future business goal. Good luck with it Josh, keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Indeed, but now the attitude has largely shifted to lightweight kit, with a lot of people seeing it as almost 'disposable' to an extent BITD frames weren't all tending towards £700+, so the likes of Leeson and Curtis were priced high but it was a one off, custom product so people would plump up for it. To churn out a custom alu frame starting at £300 ten years down the line is a pretty sweet gig, provided they're not heaps of crap. Yeah, I see what you're saying, but to an extent I think the whole trials market has changed pretty drastically in that time. I think people understood what they were paying for with a Leeson, but it's not really the same now. When you've got pretty good frames like the Blade, Comp, etc. out for £200 and under it's just sort of shifted things in many ways. I don't think a lot of riders now are as discerning as people were back then in terms of wanting custom stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Would the price be cheaper for 20" as well as less material is used and more likely less work (i presume?). Just a few general questions about your frames: How much did it weigh after? How has it held out, did it dent easy (if dented), cracks, snap, creases? I would be interested in getting one custom made from you, however only had my limey 320 for about 4-5 months so wont be any time soon It would be, yes, but not by a massive amount. The finished weight was 1.43kg. I havent had the chance to build it up yet as im still waiting to send it off to heat treatment (which will of happened by the end of the month as i found a crack in my control the other day ), but when its up and running, i'll give it a good hard riding, just for you and then report back. I think there is a NEED for this in the trials market. Very much agreed good sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rab shropshire Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) a couple of areas that would definitely need to be nailed would be tyre clearance for tyres such as the contis, Gear ratio-brake mounts- Cs length calculations so that on a used chain everything matches up these tend to be a things some brands can't seem to get and in my opinion simplicity, some of the nicest frames out there such as the 09 control, the 2011 echo range and the fans all have really simple designs, and seem to look awesome and have no major disadvantage above the over engineered cnc monsters that some companies produce Edited February 14, 2011 by rab shropshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannytrialskid Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 It would be, yes, but not by a massive amount. The finished weight was 1.43kg. I havent had the chance to build it up yet as im still waiting to send it off to heat treatment (which will of happened by the end of the month as i found a crack in my control the other day ), but when its up and running, i'll give it a good hard riding, just for you and then report back. Thanks Josh, that's is a very good weight too! Any chance of me testing the 20" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 a couple of areas that would definitely need to be nailed would be tyre clearance for tyres such as the contis, Gear ratio-brake mounts- Cs length calculations so that on a used chain everything matches up these tend to be a things some brands can't seem to get Very much agreed, just the fact that echo decided to pop the brake mounts in the wrong place on the control annoyed me, so it's something that i would take alot of time perfecting, in a word. Josh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Yeah, I see what you're saying, but to an extent I think the whole trials market has changed pretty drastically in that time. I think people understood what they were paying for with a Leeson, but it's not really the same now. When you've got pretty good frames like the Blade, Comp, etc. out for £200 and under it's just sort of shifted things in many ways. I don't think a lot of riders now are as discerning as people were back then in terms of wanting custom stuff. Yeah, I see what you're saying For people that want something a bit more funky and/or something in particular and know what they want this sort of thing is cool. For everything else there's Mastercard. The way I see it, if you're in a position to be looking at a custom frame then you should know what you want/need and should therefore know what you're doing. Shame it doesn't always seem to work out that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) 300 seems awesome for that sort of control over your own design. Would you be doing some sort of breakage warranty with them or even a repair service? I'd rather the guy who made the frame re weld it and treat it if it did have a fail. Edited February 15, 2011 by jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 The way I see it, if you're in a position to be looking at a custom frame then you should know what you want/need and should therefore know what you're doing. Shame it doesn't always seem to work out that way Nail on the head there. 300 seems awesome for that sort of control over your own design. Would you be doing some sort of breakage warranty with them or even a repair service? I'd rather the guy who made the frame re weld it and treat it if it did have a fail. Problem with that is if people are choosing something that isn't suited to their needs problems will arise. I'd happily pay up to £700 for a custom aluminium frame provided i got what i wanted with superior customer service and aftercare. Bearing in mind this would be from a reputable brand. Obviously wouldn't hand over hundreds to someone like Marino. But i don't actually want one anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 a couple of areas that would definitely need to be nailed would be tyre clearance for tyres such as the contis, Gear ratio-brake mounts- Cs length calculations so that on a used chain everything matches up these tend to be a things some brands can't seem to get and in my opinion simplicity, some of the nicest frames out there such as the 09 control, the 2011 echo range and the fans all have really simple designs, and seem to look awesome and have no major disadvantage above the over engineered cnc monsters that some companies produce I agree, I like my because simple as it is a very simple frame and I find the geo great. However theres a few niggles like tyre clearance so if when it dies I could get a replacement made with the same geo but better tyre clearance and a tensioning system like the new echos i'd gladly pay £300+ (the because is only £226). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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