AdamR28 Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Basically, a few months back, Dave and myself were wondering how a higher BB affects how a bike rides... any benefits, drawbacks etc. From TRA's mini Vinco review a few weeks back, it appears theres not many drawbacks. Anyway, the frame arrived a couple of weeks ago, and since then its been passed around a couple of riders for their opinions. The jury is still out, but we thought you might like to see it. (click to enlarge) Couple of pics of it being ridden: Dave chilling out on it at Ogwen today Ben Lee with a nice sidehop at Ogwen today, a couple of minutes after first riding it TartyBikes rider Damon Watson with a nice sidehop over a railing in Llandudno on Friday evening Geometry of this first prototype is: - 1100mm wheelbase - 85mm BB rise (both with Fatty forks) - 380mm chainstays - ~72 degree head angle - Custom made 140mm x 40 degree stem (a little too high, we feel... calculator must have been broken :D" ) - 4.75" frame size Well, thats all I think. Cheers, Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisa Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 These new high bb frames are looking promising. Good to see that your getting stuck in there. :D Any plans of a release of these frames? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave85 Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I wanna play :D and even worse, i wanna go to wales, b*****d friday evening exams :D bendee is a BEAST :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_urban Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 looks cool high bb sould counteract the longness of the bike making pulling on the bars a bit less strain :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspired Dave Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 looks cool high bb sould counteract the longness of the bike making pulling on the bars a bit less strain :D ← Couldnt be better said, even Mr Short Bike himself Tim Steadman said he liked it! haha, the first long bike he's EVER ridden that he actually liked :D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Quite the front disc hose :D Looks good. It's cool how you and Ad have gone from 'just' trials riders to company owners and now frame developers too. Pretty busy end to '04 :D Seems to be pretty much sorted in terms of WB and BB height - is the headangle, etc. all OK? Reckon there'll be as many versions of this as the Woodstock? :D Good luck with it. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Bling bling, where's my sunglasses. :D That looks sweet and if the price is right, that'll be my next frame. Top job. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 (edited) Christ, its not going to be long befor theres just one one big thick bar going from the top to bottom, and having the bb stuck in the middle somewhere! The top and bottom tube are nearly parallel! Looks good to me, looks like a cross between the vinco and the t-mag prototype. :D :D Edited January 30, 2005 by JT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Papasnap Maher Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 AI, this frame looks a proper beast.. erm yer, seems rather fooking excellent. As for Bendee :D , and how long had he bee riding it :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Sweet frame, and very nice pictures taken, all in all, very promising!! Quite funny seeing this topic, and Boon's 24" topic, kinda shows the spectrum of trials :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanLegend Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Looking very good guys, if it reaches production I'm sure everyone will know a lot of effort has gone into designing and testing, unlike many other companies out there! Keep up the amazing work, things keep on getting better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspired Dave Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Looking very good guys, if it reaches production I'm sure everyone will know a lot of effort has gone into designing and testing, unlike many other companies out there! Keep up the amazing work, things keep on getting better! ← Thanks matey :D. We're not affraid to get stuck in and test out theories etc. After all, whats the point in questioning something if you're not willing to put some work in to get an answer!! Rider designed/influenced trials components for trials riders, that's what we're in to :D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 (edited) So whats the acutal advantage of having a higher BB? The only thing i can think of is that you'll be able to pull up your bike further, giving your backside more space, but by the looks of things, its actualy peoples legs squashing up thats stopping them from pulling the bike higher. I can think of pleanty of disadvantages, like you'll have a higher center of gravity, which will effect gerneral balance, but can't think of any advantages... :D Edited January 30, 2005 by JT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalopS Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I think its something to do with a lower standover height :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I think its something to do with a lower standover height :D ← Well you'll have a higher stand over height with a higher BB wont you. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggy Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Well you'll have a higher stand over height with a higher BB wont you. :D ← Higher BB = Short distance from BB to headtube = smaller standover hight Lower BB = Longer distance from BB to headtube = longer stangover height I think Isn't stanover measured in length not height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsking 55 Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 that looks well nice!!! hope it all turns out well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Garland Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 It looks real nice, I guess high bb's are now the way forward for trials as the Vinco has had good stuff about it and now this. Looks like my money is already spoken for in the coming months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne-king Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 very nice! didn't think it was possible to make a frame with a higher bb than the vinco! :D i wanna go! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Drewery Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I like that frame, it looks a very nice design and the colour suits it as well. Im guessing that it rides pretty rigid becuase the top tube and seat stays are in line :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davetrials Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 i love onza, and i love the look of that bike soo much, i want a vinco but i dont really want to pay £500 Does this bike have more chnace of going in to production than the other protos you have shown us adam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspired Dave Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Wow, we really didnt expect such a great reception for this project, but thanks for all your positive words! Testing is still in the early stages obviously, but there are some clear ride characteristics that have become clear very quickly..... We were honestly expecting the bike to feel less stable than a traditional rex when on two wheels. But, we were amazed when we started to ride it, it actually feels impressively stable when trackstanding etc, so that was one opinion we have sorted out! Backwheel control: It's just rediculous. From the first time I built up the frame and got it on the backwheel in the workshop, I actually started laughing at how easy it is to control. You can literally just stand there, not hopping etc, but just balancing effortlessly. Anyone who had a go on the bike will agree I am sure, it's just phenomenal! Gaps to front wheel are also improved. As expected with a high bb, you dont have to get the bike as vertical to stoppie into a gap to front wheel. Obviously we couldn't quantify this feel, but now we've had a bit of a play on it, we can confirm the bike gaps to frontwheel amazingly, imo far far better than anything with a similar wheelbase but traditional zero drop bb. Sidehops, this was a wierd one. We weren't sure what to expect, as there were mixed feelings as to whether to high bb would limit your power and thus ultimate height when sidehopping. Or would the higher bb increase confidence that much you could out-weigh the power application disadvantages? Well, after riding it myself, and seeing others give it a good ride, it's become clear that it sidehops damn well! Much better than expected imo. When you sidehop, you dont seem to put anywhere near as much power in as on other bikes, yet you sidehop just as high!! Ask Mr Ben Lee, it's almost surreal, the bike seems to magnify the amount of effort you put in, and almost sidehop for you! haha. The standover height also helps for tucking the bike on large sidehops. Long wheelbase advantages is one that is just as expected, can bridge better and get front wheel on higher objects than normal, so thats all good :D. Ups to front wheel and then switching to backwheel seem surprisingly easy for such a long bike. This is probably due to the bb-handlebar dimensions. We had a good think about this, and wanted to get the distance fairly similar to that of a Rex, so it didnt feel too cramped or too stretched out. The custom stem has certainly helped this, and given the bike awesome wheelswap capabilites. Gapping flat to flat....This we were expecting to be affected for the worst. As with mods, the higher bb tends to make the bike loop-out when kicking hard as you normally would. However, I have found little difference in actual gap abilities. Once I got use to the way the bike felt I felt I was gapping virtually as well as on my standard Rex, all be it not quite as big when pushing myself. Front taps is something that are yet to be seriously investigated, as it's been predominantly ridden on rocks, where there wasnt the chance for giving it a fair try. Damon had the bike for a week and he seemed to get on with it 'ok', tapping around 44-45" with ease, and landing with much more control than normal. However, the jury is still out as the bike's abilities for front touches still needs to be pushed. The sort of 'loopy' nature I explained when first riding means that a 20-17 gear ratio feels very easy to use. So higher gear ratios is also something we want to have a play with, see if we can get away with a higher gear ratio etc. Over all, I'm amazed how well the bike rides on rocks etc, it's almost like cheating. As one of the sponsored riders said to me yesterday...."It takes the challenge out of rocks, it's all too easy." Going in to production....well, Adam and myself really hope it does. I'm sure with decent levels of interest and good feedback on how it rides would ensure it is released in some form or other. But there's still testing to be done, so we dont want to speculate too much! Sorry for ranting on, but hope it was a moderately informative rant! haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotchDave Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Intersting, this of course turns all theories on bb height and balance upside down, I wonder how long till we see xc bikes with silly high bbs? Also good on you for trying new stuff :D Any idea on final price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watson© Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Nice little review Dave... sounds like a really nice bike to ride... I wouldn't mind a go on one :D :D I think high bb rise and long stems could be the new generation of trials by the sounds of things... Interesting :D I do hope it does go into production... cause I must say it does look rather sexual :D Watson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspired Dave Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Intersting, this of course turns all theories on bb height and balance upside down, I wonder how long till we see xc bikes with silly high bbs? Also good on you for trying new stuff :D ← Cornering stability at anything more than 5mph would be a bit on the dodgy side! haha, so unless you get a VERY slow xc race, it's a fairly fruitless venture! hehe Nice little review Dave... sounds like a really nice bike to ride... I wouldn't mind a go on one :D :D I think high bb rise and long stems could be the new generation of trials by the sounds of things... Interesting :D ← Thanks mate :D. High bb's definitely offer distinct advantages for a lot of moves, but like I have outlined, some disadvantages in other areas. So according to your preference of riding, this setup could be THE future of trials for the not too distant future. But, it could be a step in completely the wrong direction for some riding styles, but as is always said, each to their own :D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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