Concerning, at present, probably the most important topic of your life

[1a2bcio8]

You just said you can't change human nature - greed is fixed - yet you said it's changed according to increased opportunities. This suggests it isn't fixed but can change according to surrounding circumstances. Well, the human mind is a surrounding circumstance and it has the power to modify how much greed dictates ones life. It's not hard to reference your own experience to think of times where you've made a decision to be greedy or not. I wouldn't ever deny that greed is not a human potential but it is only that. It can exist in greater or lesser degrees in people according to where they develop, what life circumstances they encounter and, ultimately, how they attempt to shape themselves beyond their developmental period.

Ideologies or attitudes can start with just one individual - consider Marxism, Christianity, etc. - and branch out socially becoming broadly accepted to the extent that they shape, not just our thoughts but our feelings. Eventually they can become so common and run so deep within us that they operate in a very subconscious fashion. At this point, such an idea will just seem normal, a part of everyday life that has existed forever and difficult to think too critically of; it's too peripheral. But cultures across time and space have always fluctuated in the extent of their greed. It is the ever present problem of being human.

Herbert Spencer, the economist, took the evolutionary notion of 'survival of the fittest' out of its proper context - nature - and applied it to economics as a justification for an elite minority to 'win' wealth over everyone else. People being rich whilst others were in poverty was just the way things are; it is grounded in nature. Darwin was wholly against this extension of notion which was contextually applicable and not meant to be universal such that it had definite meaning for human affairs. Despite his objections the idea become popular and a justification for greed. It's been quite problematic for Western society. Since that period, following the second world war, there followed a period where the UK population felt a sense of unification and there was a push for more egalitarianism. This was a response to the war but also the economic depression that proceeded it; people were more interested in sharing wealth. The consequence was the NHS and the welfare state which we're no dismantling. The initial movement away from these developments began with Thatcher but is tied to business interests of which the government are a part. These people are masters of manipulation. For instance, the current government takes the focus away from the massive tax breaks it gives to large corporations and its dividing up of the NHS amongst itself and its business allies by placing our attention on things such as immigration and welfare claimants. They have managed to make us turn on one another and, even worse, turn on the most vulnerable. Did you know disabled people have been attacked because they are perceived as 'scroungers' despite the fact the government has, in some cases, reduced their benefits below what they need to survive? Did you know that the tax owed by large companies such as Vodafone would cover our deficit if the government actually pursued them? The cost of benefit claimants is massively dwarfed by what's owed.

Conversely, the Buddha created a movement that was based on selflessness or the eradication of greed, hatred and delusion. The realisation of what was possible by this man has changed too may people to be denied. I've experienced, despite my involvement in this society, changes in my levels of greed from my readings and practices that come from Buddhism. So, again, I can confirm that greed is not fixed. It can be less or more and can probably be totally eradicated with the proper mental training.

Our addiction to technology plays a significant role in the way we are shaped toward greed as well. Sitting kids in front of televisions with adverts constructed by experts of manipulation is obviously going to create intensified needs for this or that. We have had needs for things we don't really need bred into us. And this obviously goes on into adulthood unless you take the time to detach from it.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Ben Rowlands

[manuel]

If you have no way to be greedy you can't be actually greedy. But give someone the opportunity I would guess they would take it more often than not.

Yeah it's true I can personally choose to do things to help other people, and I try to as often as I (think I) can. But most things in my life are ridiculous, and down to wants not needs and are damaging to the environment and other people, and are generally bad.

f**k I'm typing this on a f**king £500 phone - wtf ?

[sharn]

One Love.

Edited March 18, 2013 by sharn

[MadManMike]

OK I'm out. There's far too much weird shit in this thread now.

[eskimo]

Did you know disabled people have been attacked because they are perceived as 'scroungers' despite the fact the government has, in some cases, reduced their benefits below what they need to survive?

Stop there.

Who's saying that Ben? I've sure as hell not seen that in the media, and laws (even recently) have made disabled peoples lives easier. While the government has clamped down allot of benefits and lots of people have suffered, there are still many who haven't. But these figures can only be speculated, but from what i've seen in person, it's not all that bad. The media covers mostly the negative stuff here, and there's too many sources of non mainstream media to read/ listen.

Besides, when people are taking advantage of their disability, can you blame the government for clamping down on it?

And i mean in the sense of that^^, nothing more irrelevant of their actual intentions. Even so, can you blame people for questioning disabilities?

The time has gone when people can give others the benefit on doubt.

Is this worth your while?

A wonderful example of this is your coat from last week. As you mentioned we've been forced again each other, you rose above this to help. You got scalded, it could of been worse. Now imagen that but many times. How much can one person take before they give in?

Not sure where i'm going with that now, but just making some sort of point.

Did you know that the tax owed by large companies such as Vodafone would cover our deficit if the government actually pursued them? The cost of benefit claimants is massively dwarfed by what's owed.

Not sure if i buy that one. I wouldn't be surprised if Vodafone's entire revenue from day one didn't even make it. Where did you get that information from?

How do we know the deficit's actual amount? Isn't it like a trillion £

Vodafone's apparent revenue for last year was £32 billion.

If both of these figures are correct, then your source is majorly wrong. While i don't entirely believe any of it, it would be silly too.

[ooo]

How do we know the deficit's actual amount? Isn't it like a trillion £

The deficit is different to the debt, the deficit is how much money our government gets vs. how much it spends (yearly). So this value has ranged from positive to about -150bn a couple of years ago. Its been getting better though, I think we are around 90bn aiming for 50bn.

The debt, is massive though, each year we have a deficit we the borrow money to cover it. Overall things are getting better financially. However, a lot of MP's supposedly have financial intrest in large companies like Vodafone as they are shareholders. So its not in their interest to tax them too heavily.

UK taxation law needs a revise, but its complicated to create an equal playing field for small and large companies. However large companies use the complications to create loop holes and exploits and can save a lot of money. I think the government are struggling to find a good solution.

Another problem with taxation is that if we tax the rich they leave the country. This is happening in the USA, businesses and individuals are leaving due to over taxation. This creates a cycle where taxes go up to cover the deficit.

Edit: looked up vodafones tax owed, the interenet says its like 6bn. I don't know how accurate that is, but if its correct it won't cover our deficit. But, it will better than the '£0' we are getting now. If they don't pay it it will come out of our pocket.

Edited March 17, 2013 by ooo

[1a2bcio8]

Yeah, I didn't actually mean just Vodafone but corporate tax avoidance in its totality which is massive. Vodafone was just one of the easier examples.

I actually read that despite 'austerity' measures - in comas because it's austerity for most but not some - our borrowing is still going up. Austerity doesn't work but then it's not supposed to because it creates cheap labour which is highly profitable.

And Nick, my sources for the effects of welfare reform are from groups that represent the disabled, mainstream media outlets such as the Guardian but also alternative forms of media outlet such as Z-net. Below contains some important examples of the reality you mostly won't find in most of the media:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/05/benefit-cuts-fuelling-abuse-disabled-people

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2012/12/how-osbornes-benefits-cuts-will-hit-disabled

Much of the media has unfortunately overinflated the realities of fraudulent benefit claims. It's actually such a small quantity to be fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things. More people don't claim when they could than claim when they're not supposed to...

From the DWP website:

"Estimates of Fraud and Error by type of error in 2011/12

0.7%, or £1.2bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to fraud;"

Compare that to the 6bn that Vodafone owes for one year's revenue or the fact that 99.3% of welfare doesn't relate to fraudulent claims. In fact:

"0.9%, or £1.4bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to claimant error;

0.5%, or £0.8bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to official error."

More money (2.2bn) is lost through an inefficient system. It might make more sense to invest a bit more in improving that system than campaigns or advertising about benefit fraud. Although, to me, it's pretty obvious that the government does this as a way of distracting us. Hate is particularly good at clouding your view and switching off your rationality.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Ben Rowlands

[Miss-Higgy]

I'm probably really behind with this conversation. I've not read all 181 replys just bens post and a few afterwards so sorry if my reply. I'm not the smartest of people but this is what i have to say on the matter.

And having listened the video, it does worry me. I had not heard of geo engineering before, i can fully believe how bad this process is. Like he said about the temp in atlanta and three days later it snowing, why is no one questioning this. In the UK we've had some weird flooding and some really strange weather patterns. We've had comet close calls and damn close strikes. And people i know don't even know it happened. I know a few people who don't even think were in recession, I mean wake the f**k up!

If the fact about the ice cap imploding this year is true then we are in serious trouble! And 200 species of animals in a day, yeah thats a good thing isn't it. And don't naive and think i haven't heard of 200 animals dying that wasn't on the news, and thats because it will be species of animals, fish insects that you've never heard of. Our planet has such a massive eco system that even 10 species dying in a day could have a massive backlash! Do people remeber the thing with Gordon Ramsey on tv, trying to get people to stop fishing so hard? This relates in my opinion and i guess most of you seen it because it was on TV.. Geo engineering is bad, but TV is worse! lol

The dinosaurs got wiped.. Who's saying it can't happen again, ok we haven't had the big comet hit, but it was global warming that finished them off..

But like ben said everyones to happy with doing nothing. Me included but we do need to do something, if not for our own lifetime.. But think of the next generation, and i really wish i could do something? I will post the video on facebook and everyone else needs to wake up and realise we're doing serious damage even making more people aware will help!!

Good post ben, thanks for the info i had not heard of this.

[Dave Anscombe]

You shouldn't really give a fcuk about the self destruction of the world if your living every day left of it to the 'max' (by that i Quote:I live for each moment in my life-i do that by doing what i want what i choose when i want to!/My guess is you dont-My guess is your on auto pilot(guess by that then you're persuring this))

5 years is 1825(ish). So 1825(ish) days of being concerned about the world ending sort of contradicts yourself. Im sure by the end of this year, you wont be able to reel off this exact bullshite(I mo) off to everyone because priorities such as work, family ..... would of taken over again.

If the world is going to end, i couldn't really care less, myself and im sure many other people wont be affected by any of this.

Im not trawling through 6 pages of crap, i read the first post and went straight to page six (living life on the edge now son!!!)

Juuuuuuuuuuuuusssssssst out of question Dave, Do you believe in the Illuminate?

Yes i do.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Dave Anscombe

[Matt Vandart]

Bwahahhahahahaha!

State of potato!

Awesomeness!

Also:

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/03/08/1691411/bombshell-recent-warming-is-amazing-and-atypical-and-poised-to-destroy-stable-climate-that-made-civilization-possible/

[TROYston]

Then your religious Dave.
I am not religious, therefore the world is a-ok.






























Clever teddy





I M O <--------

[Dave Anscombe]

Im not religious at all

[Revolver]

I believe in Illuminate! They're everywhere, man! Every time you flick a light switch, every time you use a torch! Even when the sun comes up! We're all doomed!

[Dave Anscombe]

Im all for the illuminati and there nwo !

Dont get the illuminati confused with the elite who are currently in power and have been for time!

[Revolver]

Oh, are we on about the Illuminati? I thought we were on about lights.

[Dave Anscombe]

Oh, are we on about the Illuminati? I thought we were on about lights.

The illuminati are ''lights'' they are illuminated after all !

[Revolver]

Well, I for one am going on a bulb-smashing rampage. Who's in?

[eskimo]

In the UK we've had some weird flooding and some really strange weather patterns. We've had comet close calls and damn close strikes. And people i know don't even know it happened. I know a few people who don't even think were in recession, I mean wake the f**k up!

The dinosaurs got wiped.. Who's saying it can't happen again, ok we haven't had the big comet hit, but it was global warming that finished them off..

As i said before. The weather patterns imo still aren't a good tell-tale sign of anything. There's a few reasons.

For all we know an asteroid could kill us tomorrow and we'd not know it. Some can be impossible to spot.

Where'd you get that info about global warming info for the dinosaurs?

And Nick, my sources for the effects of welfare reform are from groups that represent the disabled, mainstream media outlets such as the Guardian but also alternative forms of media outlet such as Z-net. Below contains some important examples of the reality you mostly won't find in most of the media:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/05/benefit-cuts-fuelling-abuse-disabled-people

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2012/12/how-osbornes-benefits-cuts-will-hit-disabled

Much of the media has unfortunately overinflated the realities of fraudulent benefit claims. It's actually such a small quantity to be fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things. More people don't claim when they could than claim when they're not supposed to...

Like i said before (in person), i'm not aware of anyone with a disability not getting sufficient help. While i'm not saying it's fictional, because there are other examples in the mainstream media as well. It's just not that obvious to me.

The deficit is different to the debt, the deficit is how much money our government gets vs. how much it spends (yearly). So this value has ranged from positive to about -150bn a couple of years ago. Its been getting better though, I think we are around 90bn aiming for 50bn.

The debt, is massive though, each year we have a deficit we the borrow money to cover it.

What i've never understood, is where it came from? Someone in government must of been doing a really shitty job to rack up that much dept.

Although it being suddenly a big concern since the tories came back into power, does make you wonder.

[Miss-Higgy]

Where'd you get that info about global warming info for the dinosaurs?

The initial blast didn't wipe em out completely, it caused a heating of the atmosphere (global warming) and that finished em off.

[ooo]

What i've never understood, is where it came from? Someone in government must of been doing a really shitty job to rack up that much dept.

Budget spending estimates:

gvmtexpen.tiff

Quite a lot of money goes on social protection, which is making sure people have houses money to live, job seekers allowance etc.. I think this is important money to spend, but because of the lack of jobs and industry in this country it is way bigger than it should be.

Also our debt repayment is at £46bn, which comes from all the years of terrible finances.

Earnings estimates:

gvmrecipts.tiff

Its pretty interesting to see it all laid out like that, and yes we have been doing a shit job.

The difference between spendings and earning is the deficit, and you can see that here:

A really big part of the problem is that money isn't real. When we borrow money we are really just printing it. Every time they print money each pound reduces in value and is worth less. So each year a pound is worth less, meaning we have to spend more for all the stuff we need which increases expenditure.

- As the pound devalues products cost more and wages have to go up.

- Big companies don't want to pay more for wages so they lay people off and move overseas.

- We have more unemployed,

- Social protection costs go up.

- Government borrowing increases.

- The pound devalues

The cycle continues until we go bankrupt.

As a developed country we a the guinea pigs for the idea of a central bank. Some people think central banks are great other say they are doomed and inevitably result in collapse. The issue is, for the time the system works, it works okay.

[Matt Vandart]

You may want to watch this for eye witness statement on CT:

[casualjoe]

She looks like something alex jones just shat out.

Subscribe to scishow, he's good, he's connected and full of facts:

[Matt Vandart]

[casualjoe]

Now for a bit of actual science, from the actual scientists who know what's going on..

[1a2bcio8]

That video is a bit vague and, at best, ambivalent. The ambivalence is that, yes, global warming is bad and we should do something but we have this buffering system - oceans - that protects us. It's not specified that this buffering system although better than the atmosphere at dealing with heat has its own limits and will not work forever or even that far into the future. It's suggestions are pretty weak as well. The overall system is a problem which can't be solved by simply using your computer less or cycling to work although those are definitely good things. Our attention and efforts should be toward how our resources are used or impeded to develop better technologies which use cleaner energy. This means our attention and efforts should be toward the powerful interests that drag their feet against the change that interfere with established means of profit.

Regarding Matt's video, it's frightening stuff and within the context of other military, corporate and governmental efforts, quite plausible.

It's been a common theme within these types of discussion that people believe nothing much can be done about these types of problem. I feel this is a cynical rationalization although I relate to it and feel it often myself. Power ultimately lies with us if we manage the courage to realize and manifest it; otherwise we give it up to people that will do all sorts of atrocious things with it. We're pretty complacent here in the West because life is generally decent in the sense of material wealth although that is not given and is currently being eroded. Anyway, the protests in Brazil which, interestingly, are not even based on a political ideology but just an interest in justice about public services and spending has brought about positive change. Please watch the following video if interested:

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10386

I can't remember the details of an article I read some time ago but it was about the comparisons between the end of the Roman era and the current state of capitalism having parallels such that capitalism might be nearing its end also. I think we may be a victim or our own success here in the West. We've become so entranced by our material wealth in the form of nice houses, technology, cars, etc. that we've forgotten all else and now, for instance in the UK, we're allowing those things to ruin the planet, our governments to employ methods that worsen the economy for the majority but everyone in the end, damage the ethically developed welfare systems (NHS, benefits, etc.) and most of us do very little about it. The successes of capitalism can spell its end and probably in a rather messy way unless we work out a way to change the current system through the sorts of efforts we can see in Brazil or other areas of Latin America actually. You see a lot of politically engaged populations in those areas which have effected positive change and extracted themselves America's corporate domination.