Lets have a talk about drugs.

[1a2bcio8]

To add to the list of lovable (or hateable) traits I have, I've avoided all forms of drugs, booze or smokes for the last four years. I avoid saying the term because of how it can make you sound douchey. But yeah... straight edge...

I don't see the point. I love life as it is and it doesn't need boosting with any substances. For me anyway, I can understand the appeal it has for others though

What's interesting is that everything you do is mind altering in a sense; from the food you eat, the ideas you believe, the practices you engage in, etc. These alter the way you construct your the experience of your world. Every human being continually projects into their experience and what they project comes from their condition which is ever changing according to what you put into your body and the basic fact that you age. Drugs do those things more rapidly and with more depth but it's all pretty similar in a fundamental sense. In fact, drugs only intensify bio-chemical processes in the body that are normally managed through nutrition. Ones eating habits modifies serotonin, endorphin and dopamine levels, which are several chemicals fundamental to the experience of drugs such as opiates, MDMA, cannabis, etc. It's just that drugs typically achieve greater levels of production or rates of interaction.

It's only if you suffer from something that's called 'naive realism' that you don't recognise this fact. Naive realism is the belief that you are seeing reality for how it actually is rather than how you construct it on the basis of being a particular human being. Consequently, drug use distorts seeing reality for how it is - which, to be fair, has a kind of truth to it - rather than being one alternative shape among a multitude that includes sobriety.

But, yeah, of course you can't see the appeal until you've tried it. You might be able to imagine something about it but that's never going to be quite right.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Ben Rowlands

[Tony Harrison]

Ben's comments on LSD are interesting. The Albion ran an article by long-lost BMX photographer Lard, who 'went mad' but in doing so seemed to find a place outside of everyday existence. Then there was that TED talk where the brain expert explains what it was like to have a stroke, and how she felt euphoric and disconnected from her body and that everything was amazing.

It does make you wonder about other levels of consciousness that can at times be tapped into. I'm very scientific in my thoughts and not one to think about such things lightly, but it's interesting nonetheless.

I drink alcohol, I've smoked weed and abused valium slightly, but never tried anything else. I don't like the idea of taking a pill or a tab and it being one big hit - I'm also scared of what I'd do under the influence.

Here's the TED talk. It's not about drugs but if you're interested in consciousness and existence and whatever, it's worth watching:

[dezmtber]

You say that but studies on cocaine are saying usage doesn't have any long term social or psychological problems.

not long term i mean if you go out on the mega drugs you may end up acting a prat in the middle of a club and end spending a night in the cell

[Max Quinn]

^^confession retracted?

Been trying to get my name changed on here for a while (if anyone relevant sees this, mind dropping me a PM?). Untill then, not about participating in threads like these.

[Joe O'Connor]

What's interesting is that everything you do is mind altering in a sense; from the food you eat, the ideas you believe, the practices you engage in, etc. These alter the way you construct your the experience of your world. Every human being continually projects into their experience and what they project comes from their condition which is ever changing according to what you put into your body and the basic fact that you age. Drugs do those things more rapidly and with more depth but it's all pretty similar in a fundamental sense. In fact, drugs only intensify bio-chemical processes in the body that are normally managed through nutrition. Ones eating habits modifies serotonin, endorphin and dopamine levels, which are several chemicals fundamental to the experience of drugs such as opiates, MDMA, cannabis, etc. It's just that drugs typically achieve greater levels of production or rates of interaction.

It's only if you suffer from something that's called 'naive realism' that you don't recognise this fact. Naive realism is the belief that you are seeing reality for how it actually is rather than how you construct it on the basis of being a particular human being. Consequently, drug use distorts seeing reality for how it is - which, to be fair, has a kind of truth to it - rather than being one alternative shape among a multitude that includes sobriety.

But, yeah, of course you can't see the appeal until you've tried it. You might be able to imagine something about it but that's never going to be quite right.

Well yeah I understand that everything we do and consume alters your views and mindset and all that. And I agree 100% with everything you said, I cant add much more to it because I am no way near as knowledgeable on the topic as you would be.

Aside the effects that it has on your mind and your "concept of reality" I guess you'd call it, I also avoid the three for health reasons. In saying that I know that the Wendy's I ate tonight is just as bad and that a load of other stuff I eat is terrible for me but I see no point to add extra stress to my system through smoking or drugs. For alcohol I am fully supportive of social drinking and love the idea of mates getting together to watch footy or cook up some steaks and have some beers or girls getting together and having some wine and all that, my religion fully supports drinking. But I draw the line at getting overly drunk, I think its a waste of both money and time. The drinking scene doesn't grab my attention so I avoid it, simple as that. Also its a buttload of carbs to be consuming haha.

My views on it can very much be seen as ignorant due to never having experienced it all but it doesn't bother me. I'm not going to go starting fights with people for doing it, I just wont join in and if you light up a joint I am likely to leave

[Azarathal]

What offends you so much about someone sparking up if it's their choice and you can respect their decision for doing so?

[Sam T]

I'm the same as Joe here, I don't wish to be surrounded in such so I choose not to be. I do not drink either and have never touched any kind of illegal substance, and having seen what it's done to a close friend of mine I don't think I ever will. As such my social life probably isn't as good as my other friends but it doesn't bother me as I can focus on the more important things. Hearing that my friends got totally f**cked last night in town, ended up on a roof on a multistory and getting beaten up definitely does not appeal to me haha ( you know who you are ) I don't necessarily disagree to people doing such this as it's there choice and if they're enjoy it then good. Makes me sound very ignorant and I suppose I am upon it.

Just my two cents. )

[Joe O'Connor]

What offends you so much about someone sparking up if it's their choice and you can respect their decision for doing so?

It doesn't offend me at all, but I don't want to breath it in. Smoke from tobacco, weed, imitation weed and all that stinks real bad and if its around I don't want to be for that reason and because I feel very awkward and uneasy around it. But never offended.

As with beer, all I want to talk about is photography, bikes, heavy metal and the like. I don't know what parties are like around the world but in NZ parties are just shouting, fights and pointless conversation. I'll hang with people having a few but parties aren't constructive and I get bored and feel out of place so I stay for 15mins and leave

[Danny00135]

Went through a stage at around 14 where I'd go out in the woods on my bike with a mate to drink, when that got boring I got into smoking, then every party I went to tried scoring some drugs, anything, but wanted my mates to get it since I hadn't tried anything before...

You have no idea how glad I am that I never got any myself, and all my friends were quite unreliable XD
I've kicked in smoking baccy now and on an e-cig, which I hate myself for doing, the girlfriend hates it but trying to quit every other way hasn't worked for me at all.

Peoples attitudes change all the time, so much so that even though I hate smoking with a passion, it's still the first thing I do every morning :/

Just glad I didn't get hooked on anything else when I was being experimental :/


I'm glad I have this attitude now though, since I'm always being invited out to get high even though they know I never will, peer pressure wont work on me any more

[1a2bcio8]

Well yeah I understand that everything we do and consume alters your views and mindset and all that. And I agree 100% with everything you said, I cant add much more to it because I am no way near as knowledgeable on the topic as you would be.

Aside the effects that it has on your mind and your "concept of reality" I guess you'd call it, I also avoid the three for health reasons. In saying that I know that the Wendy's I ate tonight is just as bad and that a load of other stuff I eat is terrible for me but I see no point to add extra stress to my system through smoking or drugs. For alcohol I am fully supportive of social drinking and love the idea of mates getting together to watch footy or cook up some steaks and have some beers or girls getting together and having some wine and all that, my religion fully supports drinking. But I draw the line at getting overly drunk, I think its a waste of both money and time. The drinking scene doesn't grab my attention so I avoid it, simple as that. Also its a buttload of carbs to be consuming haha.

My views on it can very much be seen as ignorant due to never having experienced it all but it doesn't bother me. I'm not going to go starting fights with people for doing it, I just wont join in and if you light up a joint I am likely to leave

That's fair enough and I'm also uninterested in judging you for not trying drugs but I will point out what I think is a matter of fact. It's a also a good point you raise about other habits in your life causing harm to your body yet still engaging in them but then we're always doing better in certain areas of life than others. And just because we harm ourselves in one way it certainly doesn't make us hypocritical for not opening up ourselves to something harmful in another way.

Interestingly, certain drugs - usually psychedelics - have an extremely limited and even negligible effect on your health and, in fact, there was an article in a mainstream news paper recently discussing a study that revealed how people's quality of life tended to be significantly increased for up to a year after taking magic mushrooms. I wouldn't argue the same for many other drugs which often, for example, stress the cardiovascular system and are neurotoxic although they may still have the potential to support one's psychological growth.

I also read something about how MDMA is being tested again as a means of counseling and, more specifically, marriage counseling. This was one of its initial uses until it was criminalized. I do think that if we can develop ourselves without the use of drugs this is preferable but sometimes people have significant psychological barriers and only something powerful will overcome them.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Ben Rowlands

[J.KYDD]

I've dabbled a bit, but don't do anything at all now, I barely drink

Smoked quite a lot of weed when I was 15-16. Was a good laugh at that age, getting stoned at parties or simply baking out a shed! Once I left school though and the group all went separate ways I've barely touched it. Haven't smoked anything now in over 2 years - I f**king hate cigarettes

Did MDMA quite a few times up until a couple of years ago - it's freekin' awesome! Only ever took it at an 'appropriate' time (drum & bass raves etc) and the effects are fantastic.

Just sort of heightens everything, though you do need to be careful not to drink too much while on it

Cokes a laugh, but only taken in once or twice. Just makes you super confident an talkative - quite easy to make an arse of yourself

That's it really. Did some shrooms once at a house party when I was still school age and tripped out for a couple ours. Vowed that I'd never again do anything hallucinogenic, I'm not happy with anything which f**ks with your head in that way

[Mark W]

Sort of related to that, but there was also an interview in the Albion (Ian knows what's up ) with Hoang Tran where he was talking about taking LSD for the first time, and how he and his friends had milk around as niacin can help reduce the effects of it and essentially mellow out trips. They had a friend who went through a bit of a sketchy episode having taken LSD and drinking milk helped ease him out of it. Seems to be a bit of evidence floating around online to back that theory up too.

[Simpson]

I won't post too many personal things because drugs aren't cool you may as well look on the Frank website. The problem about asking for different peoples experiences is there almost always going to be drinking alongside the drug. The most worrying thing about casual drug users is you need to be able to trust the quality of what your taking because at the end of the day you would be buying white powder of a total stranger and its not in his benefit profit wise to sell you anything too pure. So if you are thinking about experimenting I would try one from a batch that you know someone has done before and enjoyed.

The other problem is when you haven't done drugs you think "First time I do it I'll do it in a controlled safe environment" and then you end up double dropping after 6 pints when your confidence is high. Just don't be a doosh and plan it then you'll probably enjoy a bit of a dibble dabble.

I smoke - when I was living on my own I probably smoked 6 out of 7 nights a week - got my Maths degree and got a good job whilst doing it and it never seems to have affected me so yea..... I really enjoy doing that

[Blake]

I won't post too many personal things because drugs aren't cool you may as well look on the Frank website. The problem about asking for different peoples experiences is there almost always going to be drinking alongside the drug. The most worrying thing about casual drug users is you need to be able to trust the quality of what your taking because at the end of the day you would be buying white powder of a total stranger and its not in his benefit profit wise to sell you anything too pure. So if you are thinking about experimenting I would try one from a batch that you know someone has done before and enjoyed.

The other problem is when you haven't done drugs you think "First time I do it I'll do it in a controlled safe environment" and then you end up double dropping after 6 pints when your confidence is high. Just don't be a doosh and plan it then you'll probably enjoy a bit of a dibble dabble.

I smoke - when I was living on my own I probably smoked 6 out of 7 nights a week - got my Maths degree and got a good job whilst doing it and it never seems to have affected me so yea..... I really enjoy doing that

Thing is Frank and other such websites are biased and don't have a range of opinions.

[bing]

I've dabbled with a fair few substances, but not heroin or crack cocaine. Never smoked, never smoked weed. I'm with the guy above, I drink socially, but I dont over drink, as it ceases to be fun or cheap and it leaves me feeling like utter shite for days. I was a fairly heavy user of cocaine, but the birth of my child and a full time job sorted me out and made me re evaluate things. I will never touch drugs again, apart from a few beers now and again

[Azarathal]

Thing is Frank and other such websites are biased and don't have a range of opinions.

Frank are actually quite good, a mate was trying coke for the first time and told them regardless of what they say he'll do it so they told him what to expect, how he'd feel and even safe dosages so he wouldn't OD or anything.

As with everything though moderation is key, avoid taking too much of something or doing it too often and you'll be fine (most of the time )

[Jake.]

Spoke to a guy at work today about weed, he's 36, he told me he smoked it in his uni days socially with all his friends quite regularly but didn't say an exact number.

He says that it only effected him by making him feel lazy, he didn't like this so he stopped.

However he had a roommate who would roll a straight joint before he went to bed, and when he woke up in the morning he'd have it. Apparently he's pretty f**ked in the head now.

So yeah anything taken in moderation is usually gonna be fine for you.

Edited October 16, 2013 by JMCD

[Simpson]

Thing is Frank and other such websites are biased and don't have a range of opinions.

Franks actually a pretty good guide. As I said in my post the problem is that drugs are illegal - and as such you won't have a clue what your buying or whats in it. So experiences and comedowns etc can be massively different. Take weed for instance - weed is the easiest drug to tell what it is - if it looks like weed and smells like weed then its weed. However some growers will use chemicals to make the plants grown faster so they can make more money. These need to be flushed through the plant before you cut it dry it bag it and sell it so this is an expense that some people wont bother with and will bag it up still with the chemicals in the plants system. And smoking chemicals aint good for you and can taste really bad. Some weed will have very little THC content etc. etc. etc. and weeds the easiest to tell what your buying. If you buying a white tab or powder then you literally have no idea what someone in your local area has put it that to bulk the bag out. If you sell drugs on without cutting them then profit is very low so to make more they bulk it out using other white powders which look similar to the drug component.

[casualjoe]

That is a good point, and thankfully people are starting to wise up to the crazy effects that treating this country's people like children have on society. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24542125

[Mark W]

lol @ using the phrase "look imaginatively" when talking about drug usage. Anyways, David Nutt spoke out about it before and got fired - I doubt much real change is going to happen unless they think getting people smacked off their tits could allow the government/their cronies do whatever they like with less worry of repercussions from voters...

Also, the lack of an apostrophe in "Lets" upsets me.

[Dave Anscombe]

lol @ using the phrase "look imaginatively" when talking about drug usage. Anyways, David Nutt spoke out about it before and got fired - I doubt much real change is going to happen unless they think getting people smacked off their tits could allow the government/their cronies do whatever they like with less worry of repercussions from voters...

Also, the lack of an apostrophe in "Lets" upsets me.

Drugs are just bad mkayyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Mark W]

Insightful, worthwhile post as always. Good to have you back Dave

[dngr2self]

I used to like weed but it made me too lazy. I like being stoned though and think it's ok in moderation. Ecstasy is shit, I just used to tell everyone my life story and act a willy. Cocaines alright for going round town but shit if your somewhere quiet. Mcats shit. Acids quality when your hanging out with a group of mates but not for going round town, I've had some great times tripping. Mushrooms can be hit and miss, I've had some right laughs on them but also some bad times. Fets another good one for round town but if your just knocking about the streets it gets pretty boring. On the whole I think drugs are ok for some but not others, it depends on the person. Personally if I could go back and do it all again I would, even more than when I was younger in fact.

[N.Wood]

Straight up drug free zone up in here (apart from a few cheeky tinnys with the lads at the weekends wheeyyyy lager) but if someone goes "tried meow meowwwww once, it was shit!" then thats bs because a brother coulda got a shit hook up and it was 4% meow meow 96% catnip if a brother knows what i'm sayin?

[FamilyBiker]